Jeffery: Welcome to the supporters fund ask an investor I’m your host Jeffrey potvin and let’s please welcome Saad Hassan from Hassan family office CEO of investive as our investor for today welcome saad it’s a real pleasure having you join us today.

Saad: Hi Jeff thank you for having me

Jeffery: Brilliant well I’m excited to chat with you because you’ve chatted over the years you’ve built out something new that’s pretty exciting I think we first met at I’m gonna say it was at a pitch event and it was through uh Founders Institute yeah and I I always be a big fan of being able to jump in and help out when uh when they have companies go through and I think we both hit it off pretty quickly because of the space that you were tackling and jumping into so it was pretty excited to chat with you and we’ve continued that conversation over the years so I’m excited to jump in and the way we like to kick off our show is that we want to learn a bit more about yourself so you go back all the way to your Western Days TD give us a background on yourself a little bit about what you do and then one thing about you that nobody would know.

Saad: Interesting okay um so I went to Waterloo Northwestern um I’m very proud of that fact I would actually go even further back so our family is originally from Bangladesh um a little bit of roots in the Middle East as well but um we moved here when I was nine years old um Waterloo was 20 2008 I think when I started in Waterloo and I actually did Health Sciences that’s something that a lot of people don’t know about me given my my industry but my plan was to go through med school and become a doctor my mom is a pediatrician so the and when I was uh four years old I broke my hand I got two elbow surgeries and spent the next two years you know three years doing therapy and all of those things at the hospital Ward with my mother in her department and basically it was after school all the way until you know night time when she would come home so I got to really understand and know the hospital scene so from a very young age I had been ingrained with the fact that I want to be in this space this is what I want to do with my life so um you know fast forward through high school I did um I did uh an IB Program here in Toronto got into Waterloo for Health Sciences in my third year I did my mcats you know got into some Caribbean schools I wasn’t good enough to get into the Canadian schools and then I had a just a decision to make and I thought to myself okay I spent a couple of thousand hundred thousand dollars go to med school spend the next you know seven eight years of my life in school just to be a GP um maybe if I wanted to specialize that’s more school all to you know then work in a hospital and and some sort of clinic in a depressing environment staring at you know gray walls for 16 hours a day or I make a decision now and just make a change go towards something that I’m more interested in and so that’s where I made that little switch and went into uh to business uh people have always told me I’ve always been very good at science my thinking has always been science science and even in business the way that I felt like think and process information has been through sort of scientific method but people always tell me that I’m much better with people than I am with uh with you know inanimate things so um you know it always worked out so I did a uh business in Waterloo I finished up the program in eoit which is now University of Ontario and um then I when I worked at TD for a little while while I was going through the last aspect of school started out you know doing very simple basic analyst stuff in TD then went into TD Securities went into the over-the-counter trades uh Department did some Investment Banking that’s when I got into private Investments um and all through this time you know my family and my family office it’s a single-family office um we had I had completely opted to stay away from the family office most of the family has been managed by you know outsourced wealth managers and Etc I hadn’t touched that altogether at all and I had made it a point to myself that I was going to make it on my own and not try to you know take advantage of the the situation that I had so um it was required of me to gain my own credentials is required of me to make it my own way and only when I was able to really prove my worth then I slowly started moving into handling some work for the family office now my area of expertise has always been uh private Investments public markets has never really been something that I’ve been very good at um and so private Investments I understand it I get to roll up my sleeves I get to sort of put my thinking cap on and I think that’s what’s interesting so as I made more relationships and as I did more deals in the private space I was able to start taking some of our families um allocations and start to put it into private Investments so that’s really how I got into it now we’re at a situation where I manage the private arm of the family office the public arm is still you know outsourced but uh mostly what I spend my days doing um I wear a couple of hats but on the family office side I spend most of my time doing uh research and DD and and allocations for real estate for private equity for Venture often for infrastructure deals which is uh along the lines of what we do and um you know then along the way we created invested and so I spent a lot of my time doing that as well and we can talk about that a little bit as well so yeah that’s a little bit of help me um to to answer your question about something that most people don’t know about me it’s it’s I’m I was almost a doctor.

Jeffery: I love it and that’s a really exciting background you’ve I love the idea that you actually at one point decided I have to make a call here and make a change and I think that’s crucial and any youth life is to see the picture ahead of them and figure out if this is a picture they want to be part of.

Saad: Yeah I mean you can imagine how that went you can imagine how that went in the family you know a family you know Brown family one mother one’s a mother of a duck mother is a doctor and the founder is an engineer and so you tell them hey I’m going to quit sciences and I’m going to go into business um that was lovely for them.

Jeffery: Well I’m sure it was a little bit of a turning point but as you mentioned they weren’t going to just hand over the keys to the car they were waiting for you to kind of prove yourself and you still had to go through that change which I think is also shows that you know they supported you and they cared about you but they wanted you to pave the way so if you’re going to make a pivot you’re going to have to make that weighted direction of what’s going to bring value back not only to you but to the family.

Saad: Yeah for sure

Jeffery: So you mentioned and we’ll we can I’d love to learn a bit more about it and you can share on the investive side so while you were going through this journey and I would say it’s more of a background side because as you mentioned you weren’t doing a lot of the family side but you started to dive into it and then you came up with your own model and how you wanted to start investing in Venture and and working with early stage companies and I remember a few years back you actually connected us to a company that we ended up investing in and so you you understand the space you work inside of it maybe you can share a little bit more about how that looks today and and where investive is and where you’re looking to go with it.

Saad: Yeah sure so investive is just a private alternative Investments ecosystem um we started out as a matchmaking service but uh we realized very quickly that the main pain point that we had to solve in this industry is that there’s a lack of technology that connects private Investments right it is a very siled space people value you know relationships and transactions more so than uh efficiency and streamlining using technology for a good reason because you know as you become more and more wealthy as a family the more you’re out to protect yourself in your name and and not be involved and known for your activities makes you a Target but also at the same time it makes you uh a source for solicitations or Target for solicitations so people don’t really like that very much so so privacy is low-key a lot of people have come and tried to do what we’re doing but they haven’t really solved the Privacy issue so that being our our North Star we we’ve built investive to be an infrastructure and technology that prioritizes the privacy of of our investors does not share their information to just anybody you know not be some sort of a database that you can just go on and just search for investors and call on them but mainly focus on building Tech that we know will streamline and facilitate the investment process that includes you know data rooms because that’s a huge aspect that includes reports that relate to due diligence between the investor and the manager and the investor relations portion which you know buffers the the initial introductions all the way to the point of of that deal closing so we know that we’ll never replace the need for an in-person meeting the need to look into somebody’s eye and shake their hand but we understand that prior to that there’s a lot of due diligence that can be done that disqualifies a lot of potentials even after uh they meet so it’s really about reducing the cost of Business Development on both sides it started out because we were in co-investing with a lot of family office there was about 20 family offices that we were doing deals with given that I was younger given that I had a sort of hunger for technology they just looked at me and they said look why don’t you build us an intake portal the the problem that we’re trying to solve is that you know as as known investors we’re pitched all the time and usually the pitches look the same way right it’s high here’s a blurb comes in on LinkedIn or email a long blurb about who they are attached with a presentation now uh for them to really go through all that they have to dedicate a lot of uh analyst resources to to qualify that to you um not always worth it but they understand that there’s some diamond in the rough and investors you’ll you’ll realize that they come with a lot of fomo right so so to solve that problem they said okay let’s build an intake portal where we create an account we set our specific criteria ahead of time set it forget it and anytime somebody pitches us or calls us we say hold on you know stop right there go onto this website fill out the forms there and there’s a layered algorithm that’ll tell us if we should talk to you or not it was just a simple website so you know it was it was very useful for us so the 20 family offices started you know sharing it with other family offices who then started diverting more of their solicitors onto the system and eventually one day we woke up and there were a lot of people on one side and there was a lot of people on the other side and we thought hey there’s a Marketplace so we spun it off into its own business so that was the Genesis of investitive um keeping everybody’s identities private understanding these set prerequisites ahead of time making matches based off an algorithm that uh you know told you as an investor should you or should you not speak to this person based on an algorithm that we’ve chosen um we’ve then you know moved away from just that aspect and we started realizing okay well the matchmaking is an important component but then they started telling us hey we have an issue with the way information is being relayed to us right data rooms that are coming to us sometimes are incomplete sometimes they’re inconsistent files are mislabeled so we never know you know where to look for what so can you then now standardize data rooms so we’ve built a system that standardizes the way delivery of data rooms is done completely in a structured manner almost like a what a docsend does the features of the dock send except it’s not just drag and drop files it’s drag and drop files into its known containers so that you’re able to then you know render it in a nice way that everybody knows and every time an investor gets a proposal from us from a from a client it looks the exact same way every single time so that’s really what investive is and I think that in the next couple of years we really anticipate that investing will be the central go-to place for anybody looking to find private alternative Investments.

Jeffery: That’s awesome and just before we dive into everything else I’m going to say that I’m not sure if you’ve been back to Bangladesh in a while but I really I spent probably almost a month in DACA and surrounding area and a huge fan honestly it’s a fantastic country uh beautiful people landscapes beautiful it is got the hustle there which is fantastic they were just launching the train a new Metro through the through DACA when I was there yeah and I was trying to take the train into Kolkata but it was uh I couldn’t get on but there was some great people that were helping me along the way and I didn’t even ask like this is the best part just in the train station trying to figure out why I couldn’t get on to one of the many many trains that go in and out of India and this young guy comes up probably saw that I looked a little bit uh perplexed at the Antiquated system and jumped in and started asking he’s like this guy’s a foreigner get this guy on this train and he did everything to get me through and was honestly it was a beautiful experience I just thought I’d share that but fantastic country.

Saad: Well I’ll say this and not just Bangladesh in most places in the world if you’ve been to places where there is struggle and there is a lot of struggle in Bangladesh I think struggle makes for simple people and simple people come with really big hearts and I’ve noticed that in not just in Bangladesh but in a lot of places in the world.

Jeffery: 100 agree with that like Sri Lanka same thing amazing people going through some tough times I was there just before the uprising that happened and it was the same people are just phenomenal because they’re working together to build and move forward and all the other things are just obstacles in that Journey so but again beautiful beautiful places.

Saad: You would think that’s not the case because you know when you have scarcity like that you know Theory tells you that people tend to become selfish but you know that’s not the case I think that you know they go back to their roots of of you know being hurt animals and and being heard mammals as nature and I think you realize that that they this the pack survives and I think they have that mentality completely.

Jeffery: Agree with you yeah it’s it’s pretty cool to be part of and and I can say that uh it was like being in rural China when a decade ago when my photo was taken more than I took so when I was in Bangladesh there’s very few foreigners that go there I think I had my photo taken more than I took of the uh great architecture and old cities and Villages I was in so it’s pretty cool.

Saad: You’re probably you know on some shelves right now in Bangladesh just saying hey I met a white guy one time.

Jeffery: Oh totally totally and I will say that they have phenomenal food the food is phenomenal street food awesome and all of that carried over into Kolkata into India so you had West Bengal West bengalese food there oh man like I could put on 100 pounds just hang it up there like it was Incredible.

Saad: That is true

Jeffery: So well I dive wrote it but so let’s go back a little bit into to kind of pick into some of this great story and the line that you’ve gone on you had some great experience of course being able to kind of work at your mother’s work and I think that’s really kind of cool because they have these environments set up I guess all over the world where you have that opportunity to go to your parents work and spend a day or two there you spent a month or two there kind of rehabilitating so you really got to learn that oh years even better.

Saad: Years yeah

Jeffery: So you became one of kind of the you were almost like an intern doctor as a young kid just learning and working through the system so it’s pretty exciting learnings that you gain from that on process uh abilities to what things you can do interacting with people because you would have had so many people interacting with the young guy that was hanging out with his mom for months and years that’s pretty exciting.

Saad: Oh yeah uh everything that I am today I think is derived from the lessons learned from then because that inspired me to want to pursue Sciences which I have zero regrets even though I moved away from Sciences I think that the lessons that I learned and how to process information and apply things I may not know a lot of things but you know and I consider myself not a master of anything but really a jack of all trades but what I think I can really do well is to take information from one thing apply it to another and find connections between the two which I think really comes from the scientific background so um 100 I think that that really has been the biggest source of of of sort of motivation and drive in my life.

Jeffery: Well hopefully this motivates other people to say maybe I should be bringing my kids into the office or into my work environment a little bit more so they do gain that intrinsic knowledge that’s just gained through socializing and communicating just in the environment you’re in I think we lose that ability to think there’s anything there but just being able to observe that the red alerts going on all of these things create actions and you see how people move and interact and do things you learn from that especially when it’s repetitive every day and then you take that and move that along into your environment when you got into TD Securities and started to work your way into the corporate side is there a couple of things that you could say you learned as well in the corporate infrastructure that have helped you today in the entrepreneurial side.

Saad: Yeah um I had this really great director who kind of saw something in me and and took me under his wing um and I have to say you know I owe a lot to him in how he did it because he understood something about me which is you know people have different learning styles um you know different personalities and all of those things and and I think he did a test on every one of his employees and I found this very unique and I do this in my companies too first thing he always did was he checked what our learning styles are and what our motivational styles are um and then the other thing that he gave us a survey on is he said you know when you are recognized for the work that you do you prefer to be recognized in public or do you prefer to be recognized in private I found that fascinating and I found that it was great management but what he learned about me is that I like to be recognized in private I get awkward in public acknowledgments but also at the same time what he recognized about me is that I’m the type of person where when I if I’m to be convinced to do something or motivated to do something I can’t just be told what or how to do it I need to be told why and if I understand it and if I can understand your why then I will take ownership of the situation and I will work on it just the same way that I was the owner of that business and he really taught me through my corporate Journey that hey if you want to do well in anything you have to treat it like it’s your own business it may not be but that level of ownership that you take will dictate your initiative and it’ll dictate everything else that you do in your accomplishments along the way so I think I had a really good role model early on who kind of crafted me in the right direction and I think that that’s what sort of propelled me throughout the journey that I had at TD.

Jeffery: I love that and the part that I love there’s a couple of things that you stated there but treat it like it’s your own business if you want to get something out of something you really have to treat it like it’s your own put the passion the drive that will align everybody else up to support you at the same time so I think that’s super valuable but I think the real Top Line value here that you gained was that someone saw something in you through the test or through just being able to meet with you and interact with you and they took you under their wing I think this is something that I find that is lacking in the world today or even in general is that people don’t take enough time to learn the people that are with them and then figure out how can they actually prop them up and help them positively like there’s going to be some things where you got to give people a nudge and a push and a punch just to kind of get things rolling but really that positive reinforcement of understanding who you are and how you work and I love that they go into recognizing these pieces so that that actually enables you to be better which also enables you then to take accountability to want to treat it like your business because you had somebody that actually was looking after you you know as an umbrella as you want to call it but that is pretty exciting I would think that that is such a valuable thing that so many people probably lack today and that you were able to find that I think that’s amazing.

Saad: 100 I I I saw it within you know my department itself a lot of people didn’t get that type of treatment I don’t know what it was about me that made him you know do this but I think he recognized early on and this is also something that he taught me and he said look you will eventually get into management positions in your life and the one thing that people don’t understand and I take this into a sort of business as well so with all my businesses when you start you are the founder you are the one who has to do everything same with with a job like a TD you’re the analyst you have to do everything but suddenly you for your performance and your Your Excellence you get promoted into becoming a manager responsible for people I think that’s a kind of a broken system but I think I think it was Simon Simon that talks about this as well where there’s a bit of a broken system where you know you take the best doers and you make them leaders but that doesn’t make you a good leader because you know how to do the job but that’s no longer your job you ask most leaders what’s your what’s your responsibility is and it’s no longer to run the business it’s to manage the people that run the business so I think what he taught me early on was how to manage people uh and how people want to be managed by by Leading by example and so uh when I went into management um for TD and a few other companies I think I was able to carry on what he what he taught me sort of you know informally and and I think that’s really contributed to success in my businesses because or you know I’ve never raised capital for any of my businesses bootstrapped it all the way through and and that comes with being able to inspire people to believe in you along the way without getting paid and I think that that only comes from being able to understand what motivates them how they want to be managed how they want to be treated and how they want to feel that they have ownership into the Enterprise that you’re Building Together.

Jeffery: And that goes to the point you just mentioned again where it goes to how to motivate people are there a couple of things that you can share on how you motivate your team how you motivate and I know I’ve sat down with you a few times I leave excited because just how you interact with people the things that you’re sharing it gets you excited because you’re not talking today you’re talking Vision so vision’s a big player in that but how do you motivate your teams how did you do it then and then how are you doing it today and what is that thing that just the Golden Nugget that every founder needs to know because they’re like I can’t motivate 100 people how do I do this I need help.

Saad: You have to be very very transparent I get yelled about this all the time because even now when we’ve gotten a little bigger um I tend to be very transparent with everybody about how things are doing whether it’s Revenue whether it’s it’s you know operations that are you know in the works and Etc you know I don’t believe in siloing departments um because then it leaves them confused as to you know what their roles are um I really like the idea of dynamic teams that are cross-functional because it lets everybody have an understanding of all the things that are happening and how the puzzle pieces fit together and I think that when people have that they start to feel like they again have ownership into the into the position and they’re not just some you know Cog along the way that they are they’re seeing the whole Grand Vision.

Jeffery: So you’re creating a value system for each individual in the business so they feel that they’re being rewarded by being able to work with other sharp resources that are in the business they’re being rewarded by your direction they’re being rewarded by all of these different things that all sum up to allow them to see that there’s a bigger future in this role than just being this specific role.

Saad: Yeah and also the other thing is to being able to really carefully tread the line between professional and and uh and friendship when you start a business and you’re closely working with everybody you know it has to be a very close relationship you need to feel like like it’s a Brotherhood or a family um but then you know you also have to tell the line of keeping it professional right keeping uh sort of the lines very clear and sometimes I I fail at that sometimes I’m good at it but I think that that if we can master that then it becomes a a good motivator for for people as well.

Jeffery: So does that kind of go into the lines of accountability you’re you’re allowing everybody to create their own accountability but that’s where that line is if there’s no accountability then you’re just buddies working together if there’s accountability then you’re kind of that business structure

Saad: Yeah absolutely

Jeffery: I love it

Saad: I’m a little different I mean some people feel differently but I don’t like mixing friends and family into business at all some people you know completely think the other way especially in my culture you know it’s like well nepotism is a good thing um because those are the only people that you can ideally trust but I feel differently because I feel that the more nepotism you show the less you could keep people accountable and so um I don’t per se bring friends from outside into my business or or family but uh it does happen that as I bring people into the business they tend to become very close to us they can they tend to become family and then you kind of have to know where that line is to say okay great we’re here but let’s stop here

Jeffery: Well and I think that carries into with the nepotism side is that there’s a lot of emotion that gets drawn into it so you lose the the accountability sometimes because you can say wait I’m the family why are you yelling at me or why are you putting this deadline on me I’m your brother so yeah I guess those things can change because there’s that fine line of right side do you play but this is fascinating because now this shifts into the other business that you operate in which you uh managed over the I think it’s been the last five years now that you’ve been really running all of this which is the family office so family office it says it right there family office it’s not uh just uh one person and then you’ve got all these people that work for you and not one person is in the family so you’ve actually had to kind of figure out okay well how can I run this business effectively and efficiently while managing the emotional connection of the family inside of this ownership while still trying to hit the goals and aspirations of the entirety of what we’re trying to achieve and I’m guessing that there’s got to be some Line crossing and some callings he calls to Mom and Dad and saying I’m not understanding this right now but how do I get through this so how do you kind of Juggle through that emotional side not the nepotism I think that’s innate in what you’re doing but how do you manage the emotion side to still hit your goals well

Saad: One of the biggest issues with a family office is the the infighting that happens right so a first generation so here’s what happens the first generation that makes the money is the the tough one who who is less emotion and more logic more here’s how I made the money because I’m tough the kids are a little more sheltered but they’re still there the third generation becomes a little crazy and the fourth generation if the family is lucky enough to make it there tends to squander your money entirely if not the third generation that’s been the case with most family offices so the biggest two factors that affect the family office are uh family members who want either ownership or employ employment within the family office itself that always comes with infighting the other aspect of a family office is that how is the money allocated within the family members can they have access to those resources do you know how are the trusts set up and all of those things and I think that we did it uh pretty badly until I came in and just sort of changed a few things around so in terms of employment within the family office uh I’m lucky because none of my uh family members the cousins anybody are are really in the finance field they’re all doctors and engineers and lawyers and stuff like that so you know for them uh they have no real interest as long as they have you know some access to the funds now on the other side of the equation that’s when things get a little hairy it wasn’t set up very well it was set up in a very you know typical uh you know in the Middle East and in in Asia you don’t really need to have the trust system it’s more like okay well here’s the money when you want we set it up a little differently um you know the story of the Vanderbilts and the Rothschilds and how their families are set up so Vanderbilt’s lost their money because it’s they created trust fund babies right with the Rothschilds they have the family Bank set up and that’s what we did um so you know it’s it’s our opinion that you know what pulls you ahead in life is not having free money it’s having access to Capital and you know the way we set it up is that if somebody within the family has a need for the capital or a need for a business venture or whatever we’ll give it to them uh by a committee you know as a vote in terms of a loan um you know it’s going to be a loan at zero percent for whatever they need they’ll need to participate a business proposal we’ll need to evaluate it all and as a committee we decide yes or no the first time is always usually a yes you know what you have access to the capital approve yourself if you squander that money and and you don’t respect what that money means then you don’t get it again um but you know it’s it’s like what what Trump said right like you know my dad gave me a smidge and easily million dollar loan uh so for us it’s similar to that you know if if you if you take a loan you know do something with it and if you squander it then that’s a very cheap lesson for us to know that not to give you money again and that generally keeps a good system

Jeffery: I love that setup and the part that I like the most about what you just talked about is that you’re using history of how others have done things again where I find that there is the lack of people going and researching what the Rothschilds did or this group did when you learn what they’ve done and where their shortcomings were and where they had the wins and you take that back and kind of break it down and say okay this is what we want to be today and baby steps will get us to this next level and you were able to take that and say okay we’ve got the history of what you’ve already learned about what your family’s done and then took a a census of what everybody else is doing and saying look this seems to be a better function for how we’re going to operate and then this is how we can go forward and I love the fact that the first time you do something we’re going to invest in you why because your family we believe in you we’re going to look at the proposal we’re going to give you feedback we’re going to help you along this journey but make it worthwhile because the second time it’s going to be harder if you can’t make the first time work so it really does put you in the driver’s seat it gives you the confidence and I think that is also something that lacks in the world is that people make that first money the hardest money you ever get and then when you try to work through it and you can’t figure out ways to win then you start doing the wrong things to gain back what you lost and it just makes it even muddier and worse in this case you’re already giving them the support you’re helping them along and then when they do have problems they’re coming to you first they’re not going to come to you last so again that’s just a different way of looking at the system where it doesn’t work like that in most institutions or anywhere else today so I love that.

Saad: Yeah and and you know the other thing is veritocracy right I mean I have so much to say on the topic but we are now in a society where meritocracy is not that important um I I think that we should we need to preserve that because that’s how you squander everything so if we are not creating an environment of accountability and you know paying and rewarding Merit then we’re not going to create that culture going forward so Legacy is everything for us I’m second generation or I would say I’m third generation technically and but this is the first time that I’m someone a member of our family is really taking you know ownership of the families resources so I think I think it’s on me to sort of put it in a way that that works and we’ve had many advisors along the way that guided Us in the right direction but this is definitely not me on my own but uh um I’ve I think that that’s some of the my interest in history as you said um it helps along the way.

Jeffery: Agreed and I think the other piece that really ties and you just mentioned this is that you had a lot of other input as well and this input from these other groups it tends to be self-serving because they don’t get paid if they’re not doing this and you don’t do this so there’s a fine balance of are they doing this because they see the benefit in us being around a long time and next Generation the Next Generation or they try to clean our pockets out of all of our money so that we don’t have this next Generation so there’s a fine line that you’re doing it for the family they’re doing it for themselves but somewhere in between there’s going to be the fine line that allows you to operate and grow as a family office and continue to grow for Generations yeah

Saad: Well the one of the very unique advantages that I have given the the platform that I’ve built with investive is we have the trust of many family offices and you know because I provide them a value and I don’t charge them to work with us they’re always willing to reciprocate in other ways and and that includes you know understanding and insight into how they run their family office that includes you know problems that they face and challenges that they face sometimes they talk to me about very personal issues around you know the the habits of their children and all of those things and and I I learn all of that and I can say okay here’s where I think there’s some patterns evolving maybe I don’t want to go in that direction and and that Insight I think that I have is very unique and and I’m very grateful for

Jeffery: Agreed agreed 100 I so in this journey of working in the family office and really learning this new format and how you want to operate how you can build all these massive projects and start getting investment and driving them in how do the outside parties you said they kind of find you they send you stuff and you decide is this worth it so let’s just take this as a context of all family offices sure as a startup founder what’s the best approach on how they should be approaching a family office because I think a lot of family offices operate in the prop Tech space they love properties they want that quick return five years tops I want in and out in three to five and then they don’t look at startups the same way they’re like well you’re a startup you could be that I know this for 10 years I don’t have 10 years so what do you see as a family office in a way that a startup should actually approach not just you guys but family offices in general what is the needs that they are trying to fill and then how does a startup or a mid-tier company get those needs filled by them like what is that cost that really makes a difference

Saad: Okay I’ll point out two things I think that these are the two less obvious things everything else I think is quite obvious you know everyone talks about all the ways to to invest or or to pitch somebody um the number one thing you have to remember especially with family offices is that they are not an institution they’re people right family office you know if you treat an institution like a like a bank account they don’t mind because that’s what they are if you sometimes even with VCS as you know you know they want to be treated like a bank account because they want to be treated in an Institutional manner family offices are are formal institutions but they forget that because they it’s the usually the principles or the Patriarchs Etc who are actually managing the money even if it’s a CIO who’s not part of the family they still have some Equity into that into that money so they’re investing their own capital and there’s a big difference in how you deal with those people so you know you have to treat them like human beings you have to understand what moves them what drives them um and when you approach them and talk to them don’t just throw a project at them or don’t just throw you know an idea at them try to build a relationship and that’s hard I know but it’s important to do and I think this is the second one that ties into it is uh you know VCS generally go on a VC’s website and you’ll see their investment criteria tells you this is the criteria that I invest in don’t bother me if you don’t fit into that criteria family offices are different a lot of them are open to ideas but you have to also think about where they’re coming from so here’s a piece of insight look at how the family made their money right so if it’s a family that made their money because of a startup or a business that they started let’s just say in mining or in natural resources then they’re the types of family that will keep investing in those categories because that’s what they know and that’s what they’re aware of but more importantly they’ll invested directly into those Industries because they have the hands-on experience every family will need to diversify their portfolio means means that they’re still going to invest in other things but they’ll probably invest indirectly through a manager through a VC and Etc so if you know how a family made their money then you know whether to approach them for a direct investment or not if you fall into the category that they invest into a family that made their wealth in real estate is likely not going to invest directly in you because they probably don’t know anything about running a startup so they’re going to go through VCS and then they might even direct you to the VC that they put their LP Capital into but to really understand that really separates you from you know the thousands of other Founders who who don’t know anything about this one concept

Jeffery: I love that you’re understanding your audience but really doing your homework and figuring out is this something that they would be interested in have they done this before what’s the pattern what’s the history so again it goes back to that history side and learning more about them and again I agree this is something that is uh missed or we’re just running and gunning and don’t take the time to actually look into it and say wait a sec I could save myself Cycles if I actually did some research and learned more about this business or this family office

Saad: Oh yeah and we can always tell when uh when it’s a run and Gun spray and pray method right like you know if you send us a blurb on LinkedIn with even if you use our names we are aware that there are you know you know name tags that you can use from automation softwares right so that’s not the the issue it’s just there’s a billion of these coming in on a monthly yearly basis whatever right so question is which one do we address it’s the ones that really pull at our heartstrings because at the end of the day you have to remember that that family offices do have a heartstring in there somewhere

Jeffery: I like that one what pulls out the heart string that’s huge and you gotta find what that little nugget is I remember sharing this with the founder where they said that it investors are bad Venture don’t understand anything and they don’t invest correctly and I said no maybe it’s a take the reverse of that maybe that the investor has built this box around what works and you have to figure out how to get in that box and this box is fortified 20-foot walls they have everything in there because they want to find out that how hard are you going to work to improve and impress on them that you’re someone they should invest in because they’ve had enough fails and that’s why the Box gets smaller and smaller and the walls get higher and higher because they’re really honing in on what brings success if that’s what they know

Saad: Well especially in this climate all right um everyone is so tight with their with their purse strings right now because everyone’s holding and they’re trying to stay liquid but and so you know I keep hearing and seeing all over the news that you know investors are no longer investing they’re they’re holding on that’s not what we’ve seen in our system um the nice thing about our system is that that it’s being changed live so we can see shifting mandates and what we’ve seen is that the amount of money that needs to be invested is still very constant it’s just the asset classes and the criterias have become now tighter so people at the end of the days they only need to invest their money right they still need to fight and calm that inflation they still need to grow their wealth at a faster rate than the money is losing value so Investments are still happening it’s just now understanding how an entity thinks based on the current climate and and knowing where they’ve shifted their priorities as opposed to thinking entirely that they’re not investing now if they don’t have money like dry powder that’s entirely different but um I’m talking about people who have the money they will still invest they’re just looking for for for opportunistic types of deals uh pertaining to that climate

Jeffery: I love it if there’s one thing that you would share that would make your pitch the most effective to a family office what would that be is it you mentioned lots of different things of course but is there something that you know if you’re in the prop Tech space just focus on Prop tab investor family offices don’t go after everybody don’t save yourself the time or is it make it enticing or make it that it’s a valuable project raise a lot of money Family offices don’t want to invest a hundred thousand dollars they want to invest 100 million so don’t go to them unless you’ve got a lot of money that you’re looking for like what is that nugget that changes the dynamic of when you want to involve a family office

Saad: Family offices also are things have changed they’re more than willing to write a hundred thousand dollar check um into multiple startups because I think the startup asset class has become a lot more popular um where they’re going indirectly through VCS because obviously there’s a level of expertise there and and access but if deals come to them directly they’re not opposed to you know avoiding a layer of fees or something along the way so you know they’ll write checks big or small that’s not the issue the issue I think is really around knowing how they’re going to invest um startups need to understand that family offices are interested in vision uh we’re and I say we uh we’re very we have a lot of fomo and we’re very competitive right at the end of the day you have to hearken back to human nature um one of my favorite books is uh is is uh laws of human nature from Robert Greene and you have to remember that that there’s a certain level of uh competition within family offices they like to get together and they like to talk about their Deals they like to brag about what they’ve invested into because there’s not much else to talk about they like to keep other aspects of their family office as quite secretive so you know you want to sell them on the idea of the future everybody knows that your deal at the point that you’re looking to raise capital is probably not that impressive but most Founders I think don’t talk about the vision I think they spend too much time talking about product as a matter of fact even the the Y combinators um standard pitch deck template the 8 to 10 page template really spends a lot of time talking about product business model and what the problem you’re solving and all of those things there’s not a single slide in there that says hey talk about your vision talk about where is this going to be in five years um how are you going to become insanely Rich from this investment I don’t think that that’s talked about enough and I think that often what Founders do is they they leave it to the family to try to make it that determination on their own and and maybe that’s a good thing because sometimes some family will get it but sometimes the family they’re going to say look if you don’t spell it out for me I don’t want to have to do the work right so so I would say spend half of your pitch talking about the vision and and once you really clarified and crystallize the vision then talk about your product because nobody cares what your product is they just want to know where you’re going

Jeffery: I’m hitting the red button green button with the thumbs up like that’s awesome super valuable uh brilliant um I I love to share that when founders pitch is that it should be one minute on the problem solution and nine minutes or six minutes or five minutes on how do you make money that’s all that matters how do you make money and then I’d add that layer in what is your vision I love that because a lot of Founders sometimes get stuck in the product and how to sell you on it because it’s so crazy and difficult or technical that they don’t actually think of the Simplicity of it and what the outcome is you know I’m creating a card today but it’s going to be a flying ship in five years wow that’s sick that’s where you’re going that’s what I want to know that’s huge and that’s so much value so I think what you’re sharing there is keep looking project forward and just give them a taste of it it doesn’t have to be a 10 minute pitch on where you’re going but just something that gives them the goal of where this Market’s going and how you’re going to

Saad: Lead it so let me let me add a caveat to that though so apps absolutely right talk about projections and don’t be afraid to to Really project and and aim for the swing for the moon but um the worst thing you know the one thing that makes us cringe is when a Founder says this is the 100 million dollar or 100 billion dollar market and if we only took one percent of it then this is how much money we would make that’s a big if right so whenever a Founder said that to me to me automatically my brain turns off instead of going through this top-down approach whatever projections you make make sure it’s bottom up make sure you take into account the the potential customers that you’re going to sell to and and really identify who they are and then do the calculation from a bottom up period and and when I see that a Founder does that or they tell me what their Market size is immediately I asked them how they got that number and if they say it they got it from some article I turn off right away if they say that they’ve done it based on okay we’ve determined the number of potential customers we looked at what our average customer spend is and we’ve calculated it that this will be the annual expenditure that to me is like okay I don’t need to know anything else about you but you have some realistic expectations

Jeffery: That’s great well bottom up I think we’re going to start shifting now into a couple of our last segments uh man everything you’ve shared is awesome so valuable lots of great insights

Saad: so I’m glad you think so

Jeffery: Yeah this is great man all right toughest lesson you have learned as an investor

Saad: uh you’re gonna lose money you know Warren Buffett has a quote says rule number one never lose money and rule number two is don’t forget rule number one yeah that doesn’t work you’re gonna lose money especially in startup Investments say you have to go in with the understanding that it’s about the law of averages right everyone is going to look wonderful but um we we factor in that that only a small portion of our investments are going to pan out and hopefully their capital gains or your capital gains from that investment outweigh the losses um that’s something that took me a a hard time um in the beginning uh I was taking my losses personally um and outside of that you know Investments oh here’s the other thing that I’ve learned um in the beginning I was taking a lot of time making decisions and I think a lot of families do this but I think that you don’t need time to make a decision I think you need information to make a decision and I think I wish that more families and more institutions you know understood that and adapted that that you can sit around and discuss something but I think you know you know when they tell you when you’re when you’re going through University right but if you’re doing a multiple choice question uh it’s your first instinct that’s usually the right answer the more you overthink it the more you you try to you know the second guess yourself so I think that I think that generally your instincts about an investment when you first you know evaluate it is is correct and I’ve learned to tend to do that more uh now where I used to pretty much get cold feet before

Jeffery: Well you’re trusting yourself and I think that really makes a big difference so you trust comes from losses trust comes from making mistakes so I love that that’s great okay now we’re gonna kind of shift a little bit into a case study and maybe you have a startup founder she or he that you’ve worked with that you said you know what this is what it takes to be a Founder you know the company went from X to Y they were going to fail and they succeeded or they did fail like whatever that story is but what we like to portray is what it takes to be a Founder because I think sometimes we see the world in this Instagram version that it’s so amazing and they forget what people have to go through to get to amazing is there a story that you could share on that

Saad: Yes so one of the companies that we invested in it was uh in the fintech space and the original CEO he was you know an accountant very very versed in the space and he was driving the company into the ground because he was paralyzed with this idea that everything had to be weighed and reconciled and everything had to be done safely uh one of the things I’ve learned is that Founders need to have vision and they need to surround themselves with people that say no but the founder or the CEO needs to have the vision and when the CEO is the technical person whether it’s the CTO whether it’s a technical engineer or whatever the case is I I found that those companies don’t do well we had to step in into that company and we ended up making a COO the CEO the CEO was this was this you know he didn’t go to school he didn’t uh he didn’t do anything that’s pertaining to these fintech industry but you know he works on jobs while he was uh so in Canada we have a spring Masters you know that lawn care company that every high school kid does so he did that and he did a few other sort of odd sales jobs along the way learned and taught things to himself and just somehow you know got into this into this business I think he was friends with the original founder but what I learned what I learned about him is that he is an excellent salesperson he knows exactly how to sell something even if it’s not ready yet he can sell the idea pre-sell the product and then use that money to build out the features and then start when the contract is ready to go and we’ve seen him do that a few times and I thought to myself okay let’s take a chance on him because I think he would be the better CEO and that company right now is where I mean they would have exited they would have gone on an IPO um in during this time but the markets are so bad that they’re actually just holding off until they go up here when things get better and that’s the best decision I’ve ever made when it comes to the operational factor of a business because I found that the CEO needs to be the salesperson right they need they don’t need to know how to run a business they don’t need to know how to do anything they just need to be able to sell the idea to people and that includes his employees who are the ones who are experts at what they do and and ever since I’ve made that adjustment I don’t I have not invested into any company so far where the CEO is not the salesperson it doesn’t matter if it’s the most brilliant developer most brilliant engineer that comes to me with this wonderful idea if he’s a CTO wonderful but if he’s the CEO from the internet

Jeffery: It’s a good point you know everybody’s selling and you got to learn to sell if you’re not and if you can’t then you might not be the right role because you can’t just be the front runner without being part of the team and growing it and if I was to break the business down and share it’s two ways you have the number one position which is you have the front person and that front person is the Bill Gates it’s the Steve Jobs it’s the one that has to be interfacing and selling selling selling and then you have the you have the secondary which is just as powerful in the business and that person is focused on being a solutionist they have to deliver the solution and that’s where Steve was the acts of the world they’re not in the Limelight but they’re the ones that just tied all together and you need those two in order to operate however who owns those roles they’re the kind of the most crucial roles in a business if you want to build success so to your point you really have to find someone that has multifaceted but has to be able to sell

Saad: 100% and you know on that note I you know you’re right you know that’s the person that doesn’t get a lot of recognition I really need to shout out my uh my CTO for investment I mean he doesn’t get the the love and the credit that he should um his name is Paul Paul you know so um quiet you know very you know mild-mannered and you know everything that you imagine that that a developer would look like you know if you don’t know developers is exactly what he looks like and you know without him and without his problem solving and his execution I I don’t know where investor would be today I mean he’s I’m the one that comes to him with all these you know wild far-fetched ideas and you know we’ll have our our four-hour you know development meetings together and he’ll say yep yep nope that’s trivial that’s trivial yep nope and then you know a week later he’s like okay well can you look at this and tell me if this is good and and I don’t have to do any of the technical stuff and you know he’s built fintech companies in the past before and and so without him and without somebody as you said the counterbalance to to what I might be the front runner for example um you know we wouldn’t we would have nothing so I 100 agree with everything that she just said

Jeffery: I love it I love it well we’re giving a shout out to Paul then he seems like a rock star and uh we’re gonna have to give a shout out to him all right we’re going into the next the next favorite uh segment which is called the 60 second rant so this is how it operates and works you’re going to rant for 60 seconds on something you’re passionate about something you want the world to know about and I’m going to time it at the five when you have five seconds left I will put my hand up but that just means you got five seconds to finish up I will rebuttal once if I can you might be uh you might lose me I don’t know but I’m gonna try my best so I’m gonna say go and you got 60 seconds are you ready for this

Saad: Yeah

Jeffery: All right you’re on

Saad: Okay so one of the things that really grinds my gears when it comes to my business specifically is is when I’m training sales people um there’s there’s a mindset shift that I would that I always have to grind out with these guys and and just sort of help them understand is that I think sales is not about trying to build a value I think sales is about trying to to create demand and I think that I wish that more people would spend I wish that schools and and universities would teach this concept that you know there has to be uh an understanding of human psychology understanding that you know people are a herd mentality understanding that people um people don’t want to be sold to right like they want to feel like they’re buying it’s like when you go into a store right and and you know that you want to buy a pair of shoes but the when when the when the attendant comes up to you and says hey can I help you with something your automatic response is now so uh uh it’s not because that you don’t want to it’s because you just don’t want to feel like you’re being manipulated um

Jeffery: I love it so well that was your 60 seconds I’m gonna say that this is a great 60 second segment because sales Business Development are one of the toughest areas to build and grow inside of a company and really comes down to commercialization how do you commercialize what you’re doing so that you can just hire bodies they come in and they just process out this cookie cutter model that you built it’s exciting awesome and everybody wants it and to all your points it’s very tough there’s a there’s a gentleman that we interviewed the past who’s on a panel’s named Jeffy wrote a book on sales I’m going to want to make introduction because I can’t think of his last name right at this very moment but really cool really awesome book but my counter to this is that maybe when it comes to the sales side and the process and understanding it goes back to the first thing you talked about which was understanding the people communicating over communicating and being able to figure out what that is maybe there’s something in there that helps you solve this sales side and maybe Jeff can help too with his book and everything else he’s doing what are your thoughts

Saad: Yeah absolutely that’s that’s the first that’s the only way to solve the problem I mean you know people if you if you and I are having a conversation if I so if you spent most of the of the time talking you’re going to leave the conversation thinking oh that was a great conversation but if I’m spending the most of the time talking then you’re probably looking at your watch as to when you need to go right so that that just sort of goes to the point that if you as a salesperson or anything and I think that we’re all selling because even if we’re just having a conversation we’re selling something and if you are able to let the other person talk about themselves and really explain everything about themselves then you now have all the ammunition you need to to to to either sell to them or to to provide them some sort of value.

Jeffery: I think that’s the Golden Nugget right there that’s the winning piece it’s all about getting them to open up and toggle themselves ask questions to get them to start sharing and that’s when you know you’ve built that relationship and that’s where it’s going to kick off I love it I love it all right we’re going to go into rapid fire questions these are business rapid fire one one or the other and this is coming from you as the investor so you pick a or b cool

Saad: cool

Jeffery: All right founder or co-founder

Saad: co-founder

Jeffery: Unicorn or a four-year 10x exit

Saad: Four-year ten year exit

Jeffery: Okay Tech or cpg

Saad: Tech

Jeffery: Nfts or web 3.0

Saad: neither

Jeffery: AI or blockchain

Saad: Blockchain

Jeffery: First time founder or a second third time founder

Saad: First time founder

Jeffery: First money in or series A

Saad: first money

Jeffery: Angel or VC

Saad: VC

Jeffery: Board seat or Observer

Saad: Board seat

Jeffery: Safe or convertible note

Saad: Safe

Jeffery: Lead or follow

Saad: Follow

Jeffery: Favorite part of investing

Saad: Who you didn’t give you an option there uh meeting different people and their ideas

Jeffery: Okay number of companies invested per year

Saad: Six

Jeffery: Love it verticals of focus

Saad: Fintech technology real estate private Equity debt or credit

Jeffery: We’re almost Brothers love it two qualities that you look for that a startup needs to stand out in order for you to take it to the next step

Saad: A very unique value proposition in a blue ocean type of environment and the other one I would say is uh just having the team to execute that ideas are are cheap I think it’s the execution that matters

Jeffery: Again big green button red button thumbs up love it what is the piece of advice you give Founders nine out of 10 times uh

Saad: Listen to your team members um listen to the feedback that they’re giving you because likely they’re the ones that are dealing with the customers and not you

Jeffery: Brilliant do you have a philosophy or rules that you stand behind

Saad: For a business yep um never be the smartest person in the room

Jeffery: What tech will Define the world in the next five years

Saad: That one’s easy AI I think

Jeffery: Who is your hero mentor and why

Saad: Um I I would say oh damn there’s so many uh I’m a I’m a big fan of I’m a big fan of Jordan Peterson I like the way that he thinks and reasons forget all the other stuff you know whatever his views are but I like the way that he looks at the world

Jeffery: I do agree I like a lot of his content I’ve watched him talk uh read those books yeah he’s a you have to have two sides to every story or more and I like the fact that he brings all of that to the table when it counter it could be counterintuitive to say some of the rhetoric that’s out there but I also think it’s very supportive of how we have to question things and it very well shared

Saad: Yeah I think it’s it’s about the questioning part um regardless of whether you agree with his opinions or not or his conclusions but the the way that he arrives at those conclusions I think that most more people need to start doing agreed

Jeffery: What is your biggest fear or phobia in the business startup ecosystem today

Saad: Um I think my fear would be or phobia would be that people are not adapting to technology especially in my industry uh I think that that’s that’s happening right now uh older Generations who are running the family offices you know they’re more resistant to to new technology that’s trying to replace their existing status quo but I think that that you know in a few years and five years or so that’s gonna all go away

Jeffery: If you can change one thing about Venture what would it be

Saad: Uh a little more focused on Founders and a little less focus on on um sort of uh control

Jeffery: What was your worst investment an investment

Saad: Where I spent more time talking about control and a little less focus on the founder I’ve lost uh I would have to say I lost the trust of of the founder because I was more focused on trying to put my input in there because I thought that things were not going well and and and and maybe that’s still the good thing to do because as an investor you have to protect your investment but you have to enable and and prop up your founder because they’re the ones who’s steering the ship

Jeffery: I like it all right we’re gonna do some personal questions now same as the business ones pick one or the other obviously from yourself a book or movie

Saad: Movie

Jeffery: Superman or Batman

Saad: Superman

Jeffery: Fortune cookie or birthday cake

Saad: Fortune cookie

Jeffery: Five minutes with Basils or Oprah

Saad: Bezos

Jeffery: Mountain or Beach

Saad: Beach

Jeffery: Bike or run

Saad: Bike

Jeffery: Big Mac or chicken McNuggets

Saad: McNuggets

Jeffery: trophy or money

Saad: Trophy

Jeffery: Beer or wine

Saad: Wine

Jeffery: Ted talk or book reading

Saad: TED Talk

Jeffery: Tick Tock or Instagram

Saad: Instagram I don’t do tick tock

Jeffery: Facebooker LinkedIn

Saad: LinkedIn

Jeffery: Favorite movie and what character would you play

Saad: The gentleman and Charlie Hunnam’s character

Jeffery: I know this movie

Saad: Awesome movie uh yes

Jeffery: Yeah yeah that I agree that one was really good yeah yeah all the suits and uh it’s kind of like a 007 style yeah yeah great movie uh favorite book and I think you mentioned this already

Saad: Uh laws of human nature or actually 48 Laws of Power either of the two brilliant

Jeffery: Uh favorite sports team

Saad: Lakers

Jeffery: Oof

Saad: yeah it’s a bad time right now uh

Jeffery: Fair enough

Saad: Uh actually that’s a lie my favorite sport team is whichever sport whichever team LeBron is in right now

Jeffery: Okay well right now he’s still in there who knows what happens next yeah first brand that pops into your mind person brand of

Saad: First brand

Jeffery: First brand like major brand that pops into your mind

Saad: Oh uh Microsoft

Jeffery: Most famous person that pops in your mind

Saad: Bezos

Jeffery: What is the meaning of success to you

Saad: Just being able to make your own decisions

Jeffery: And last question what is your superpower

Saad: Being able to see through people

Jeffery: I love it I’ll add one other thing I think you also bring an element of calmness to all of your engagements and I think that that allows for people to be able to interact at a different in a different way with you so I think that’s also a good thing

Saad: You know that’s probably the nicest thing anybody’s ever said to me or can say to me um I uh I am very quiet and I tend to stay reserved so to to recognize that that’s definitely uh much appreciated

Jeffery: Of course well I want to say that it was fantastic getting the opportunity to chat with you today and the way we like to kind of end things off is that we want to give you the last word so anything that you want to share to the startup Community to the investor Community I turn it over to you share please also share how people can get a hold of you and again I want to thank you for all your time it’s been awesome I think we’ve been a little bit over time but man there was so much great content here so I you honestly brilliant thank you for sharing it was awesome

Saad: I appreciate it thank you for having me um yeah you can reach me um uh through investive or through uh LinkedIn the easiest to reach on LinkedIn I respond quite a lot um my priority going forward uh you know given that you know I have the family office and everything but my priority going forward is to build out investor right because I have this Vision in my mind of what I want this industry to be a little more transparency a little more access while preserving the necessary privacy but really there are no rules as to how this industry is and I want to standardize a lot across it and give everybody the same sort of equal amount of access to Capital and resources that that a lot of the the investment banking firms and Etc have and I think that starts with you know providing value for investors and earning the trust of the investors so any investor who you know might be watching this you know we don’t charge within any investors and that that business model ensures that we have no motivations to to misguide or to to misalign ourselves with investors and I think that’s key and I think that uh for those that are looking to raise capital or or Brokers and Etc that use our system you know the idea is that if we Garner the trust of our investors then we can take their input and build Tech and build features that we know will not only provide you value but also will be accepted by investors and I think that that that gelling I think is is what’s missing in our industry so that’s the vision uh we we hope that it’s the case in the next three to four years that we can we can get it there and it’ll take everybody to to make that happen because we can just build the the infrastructure but everybody else has to be the players in the in the pond

Jeffery: Saad I thank you very much for sharing brilliant love where you’re going love all the things you’ve been doing so again thank you for all your time today you’ve been a rockstar appreciate it

Saad: Thanks for having me

Jeffery: Saad that was awesome there was so much good stuff there that he shared just how to approach a family office the way to be focused the way to learn more about their history what have they invested where did they make their money that’s going to make a big difference uh when you’re pitching um metrics uh just a lot of things that really take that history learning and figuring out how you can actually improve on it and make it better and he did the same thing with the family office when they restructured it I think that there’s a lot of ways he talked about uh even in his own business now on the Privacy side keeping things with Anonymous um keeping things more secure but Anonymous I think those really make a big difference in today’s investment world I gave his way of sharing of course on that side and don’t get stuck in the fomo make sure you’re doing your due diligence and your deep Dives and the other ones that were pretty big were transparency talking to your team sharing things that are going on create accountability get everybody to work that extra little harder because they see that there’s a value for them in the future that’s the key to building these successful businesses thank you for joining us today if you’ve enjoyed this conversation please feel free to share with your friends subscribe to our YouTube channel and or please follow us on Spotify apple and or Stitcher feel free to share an audio clip or video clip around the show and we may include it in one of our future podcasts you can find or follow us at marketing openpeoplenetwork.com or at LinkedIn at supportersfun your support and comments are truly appreciated please visit us at supportersfund or for startup events or openpeoplenetwork.com thank you and have a fantastic day.