Jeffery: Welcome to Impact Investing, brought to you by the Supporters Fund from one of the largest producers of beer 2000 brands, waffles and chocolate. With the airport selling the most chocolate in the world Brussels, Belgium I’m your host, Jeffrey JP Potvin. And let’s please welcome from the city with 10 million trees Toronto, Canada. Peter Paul then looking at front funder. Welcome, Peter. Paul. It’s a real pleasure having you join us today.

Peter: Thanks, Jeffrey. It’s it’s great to be here today with you.

Jeffery: It’s I’m excited to have this conversation with you because of all the things that we get to do in the investment world. It’s very rare that you get the opportunity to kind of blaze a whole new path and create something completely different. That just threw everybody over the bridge of saying, I don’t understand how this is going to possibly work. And everybody with all their doubts, and you came through and been able to produce such a great quality product. So I’m excited to dive into that, and we’re going to do that in a second. But the way we like to kick off our show and the way we like to start is we want to have you share a little bit about your background and one thing about you that nobody would know.

Peter: Okay, so let’s start with a bit of my background. so actually I’m an ex banker. I work in, in the banking world for, for quite a while back in the Netherlands, for quite a while is about nine years and, did all sorts of exciting, things and, and, I’ve always been intrigued with finance and investment. So that was a great experience. But it’s at some point I thought, you know, I kind of seen and done it. And I want to, move on and, and I guess more down entrepreneurial at best. So, so so that coincided with actually moving to, to to Canada. So immigrated to Canada in 2010 with my, with my family, my wife, my two daughters, Leonard in Vancouver and and basically, started to, started all over again. It started from scratch, really. and, we’ll get to that before later. What that was really the, the period where the whole idea about France on there and hey, how can we advance is sort of already originated because I was working with companies to help them raise capital and experience. How challenging that, that is. So I’m intrigued with finding the investment particulier with the opportunity to, of course, innovate it, because we all know how an established, let’s say industry that is that is definitely ready. And I think needed for innovation. So, so yeah, that was my sort of calling to be to be part of that, something nobody knows, or at least just a few people and perhaps not many people would expect is that, you know, I do like to, be outside. I love to, to to, to exercise and and run and all that, but what I really enjoy it. And unfortunately, I don’t have enough, enough time for it, hence that I am still I would say, and just off beginner. But I do love being on the water. And I actually like kitesurfing, which is spectacular. but it’s it’s also something that, that I still need to learn. But I love to be loved, to be on the water.

Jeffery: That’s awesome. being an outdoorsman, water and being able to to get outside, I think, is by far the best in the world. I think that, anything I’ve learned about travel and going through different countries is that it is so crucial inside of major cities, when they have large bodies of water flowing through them, it changes the personality of the city. It changes the personality of the people, just that water flow. It is incredible and it makes such a difference there. Doing a lot of research on this now and trying to prove how much this actually changes the mood of people, shifts the energy and makes everybody stronger and better. So it’s a pretty incredible space. So I’m a big fan of that. And I think that’s phenomenal that, you get that opportunity and you work with that.

Peter: Yeah. And I don’t know Jeffrey because he, he talks about Belgium chocolate and I believe all you’re saying there, but, can I return that question? Is there something nobody knows about you?

Jeffery: Oh, well, geez. about myself. Well, there you know, I appreciate that. And, you know, you’re putting me on the spot, so I’m not sure what the, if I have, the Chris unique thing, but I can say that, maybe because you’re, being that I’m in Brussels and I’m in Belgium, I can say that, in my time, I’ve spent a lot of time traveling, and I’m a really enjoy getting into a lot of, adventures. And I can say that, I’m working towards, being close to 100 countries that I have traveled to. And I’m a big fan. I, I’m a huge fan of, the opportunity that has been in front of me and the fact that I get to meet investors around the world and startups. But, you know, just being able to be part of these cities, you learn a lot about, travel and the ways to maneuver and work your way through cities, countrysides, mountains, you know, all of those things. And it’s pretty phenomenal. And, and, you know, if if I sat down, I could probably give everybody a breakdown of how sleeping on a couch to an Airbnb, to a hotel, to all of these things all operate and they all work together in that, world of allowing people to be mobile. Mobile. And it’s pretty fascinating. So yeah, I guess I could build a few opinions off of it. But, you know, maybe that’s my interesting fact.

Peter: After 100 country visits, I would think so. That’s a lot. I mean, that’s more than half the countries in the world, isn’t it?

Jeffery: It’s pretty close. Yeah. It’s, it’s pretty close. Yeah. It depends on if you’re using the U.S, break down, it’s 197. If I think it is between 195 and 204, I think is the total number. And it depends on who is deciding which one is a country versus who’s deciding if it’s not. So, I think that’s what gives me the gap of an extra five countries if I’m over or under 100 based on that.

Peter: Yeah. Spectacular.

Jeffery: It is. It is.

Peter: Well, now taking.

Jeffery: This background that you’ve built up and you know that you could say anybody can go and create these startup companies and they can push their way through and help change regulations and everything. But I’m going to say when it comes to finance, it’s a lot trickier than that. People are in business to make money. People are always trying to control their space, and they don’t want to have incumbents coming in and changing their world and saying, I can do something now, that you were protecting and not allowing anybody. And it’s kind of like the real estate world where they’ve built these contracts to control and manage everything as tightly as they possibly can. And there’s always incumbents trying to get in, and it’s a very tough space. And I find finance legal. All of these, spaces that have been around a very long time, it’s a very tough maneuver inside of these spaces from the regulations and governance all the way through. So taking your background, working, in the past when you’re working as a consultant. And then I noticed that throughout your career, you’re always part of different groups that you were, really trying to push the envelope on what it takes to be in the fintech world. And I think that that really makes a big difference, that I wanted to kind of really push behind, because I think sometimes we forget when we’re starting a company, we just think we can jump into it and that everybody’s going to appreciate us, love us because we’re changing the world. but we’re not working our way slowly in there. So there’s a lot of groups that you’re part of, and we’ll talk to those in a second. But to start off, there’s the management side in in the finance space, what we’re kind of some of the things that you learned as you were working towards where you are today that really kind of gravitated to how you wanted to work with these startups, because it’s pretty crucial that one, you’re getting into deep dives, you’re learning about the companies, but you had to learn all of that before you got into this space so that you could be highly effective and efficient at finding the right companies to invest in. So where was that learning and where did it come from, and what are some of the top things that you would say? Make sure you understand these things before you dive into any, industry or any vertical.

Peter: Yeah. And, you know, Jeffrey, just to pick up on your point about, about doing something, new and certainly if you sort of push the boundaries. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. you know, in, the finance and investing, industries is heavily regulated. And there are reasons for that, too. I mean, you know, wherever you agree with all of that and how it’s going, we’ll get back to that later. But, you know, I do I do understand that it’s that it’s, that it’s needed, and, and so, you know, to to, to my experience actually banking, my banking, time is, is I’m kind of, you know, intrigued by finance investing and investing. and of course, in my banking time experience, really on the large level, I didn’t work with startups at that at that time. I was working in an industry. And, you know, obviously, you know, the sort of a strong foundation about, about about the industry and about the actual, you know, funding and investing and lending, you know, on the larger on the larger scale, it was the time that I also experience. Well, it’s a it’s a very, let’s say opaque industry. It’s, it’s a, it’s a very, let’s say, or a relatively small or in crowds industry if you, if you like, with, great professionals. also lots of jargon and lots of, you know, it’s, it’s not, it’s not necessary and, and transparent and open and, and so I, that as I work longer in the banking industry, felt like, you know, yeah, I, I like this I did all sorts of exciting things, but I was almost ready to sort of deploy that on a, in a different way, more in an entrepreneurial, way. And so, so I think that experience, Jeffrey, in banking was, was particularly formed me in terms of how can we do that differently, you know, how can we make it also sort of, simplify and make it make it sort of make it accessible and then of course, coincided with myself going out entrepreneurial paths with Front Runner, which of course also started as a startup and is still a startup or scale up as. But so that that time was really like, hey, I feel like things can be done different. And then when you spend time in banking from the inside, I think it’s a great opportunity actually to experience that and also learn and get ideas on how you would like to do that, do that differently. And so with your with regards to your point, on, on, on of course later on companies, how do you screen those, those, those companies. I mean there are typically earlier earlier stage companies are very limited track track record. I remember when I worked for the bank, you look at the history of financials, you look at complex balance sheet, whether panels. Well, startups, some of them have very limited or no history. Right. So you go often for of course who’s the team who’s driving it. You know, how did they think it through. you know, and so there are of course other aspects you look at to, to, to screen these companies. And of course, in the meantime, I’ve got a great team to help me with that. But but particular point I’d like to reiterate, in in my experience in banking, really, that’s where I thought, hey, I think things can go different differently different, can can be done differently. And, and that combined with my desire to, to, go down entrepreneurial path to build something new in this industry. Yeah, that’s, that’s sort of was for me. those were strong drivers.

Jeffery: Which is, I think the best way to kind of make that that leap forward is take the learning that you’ve built up over the years and then utilize that as the firepower for you to make those big changes. But you also know that these changes are going to take time. So they weren’t just something that randomly falls in front of you. And the change happens in five minutes. It’s something that’s taken a lot of time. The business is now on its 10th year, so congratulations on that. That’s pretty exciting. And when you take that ten years of knowledge, plus the the ten years prior that you were building up while you were working for different groups and working in the financial space, is there, you know, you kind of mentioned that your whole goal was to simplify everything. And I think really Front Finder has achieved that simplified version of it. And you’re starting to see more platforms that are coming out to simplify the legal and accounting. So there are things that are starting to really trying to hone in on that simplification, on helping a startup move from A, B and C and do that quicker. So when you take a look at where you are today and what you’ve accomplished, over that time period of working your company through the regulations, are there were a couple of pieces that you thought you may not have gone through that just the regulations were very stringent. didn’t want to change. And you really had to take a lot of effort earlier on to convince them that this was something that public investors really want to have access to.

Peter: Absolutely. there have been those times and, you know, and when you say like and you’re right, you know, I incorporated the company in, in, 2014 and so. Yeah, so we’re in our 10th year. So it’s almost as if it was carried the year, b because it has been a time and I think, Jeffrey or experience surfing the beginning. So when I had this, there’s this idea, this was when I offer I spent three years in Canada. So I moved to Canada 2010. And then I started, as I mentioned, working with companies. And I recognized the opportunity like, oh, it’s so it’s challenging to raise capital. They’re also going to this small group of usual suspects. What if you can expand that group, and what did you use technology to leverage that? And of course, I didn’t invent this. This was this started actually in 2010, in the UK. That was one of the first countries actually investment crowdfunding started. And as I was, I was intrigued what was happening there. That totally sort of fit in my whole idea of, you know, like, hey, this is this isn’t finance investing, but this is this is innovative, this is refreshing. This is accessible for everyone. And indeed, you know, there are ways to simplify it and make make it accessible and easy, easy, easier to understand. So, so I, I literally, you know, wrote a letter in a, in 2014 to the securities regulator and BC. So we, I learned in fact in the in Vancouver in 2010 and, and and I said, look, this is I think it’s a great idea. It is opens you up. It unlocks, you know, an entirely new pool of capital from the public that could be invested in startups. I need some guidance on how to do this, because, of course, this is a regulated environment. And again, her reasons for that, which I recognize and agree with. But, you know, I, I was aware of that. Hey, this is this is going to take quite some, some effort to do so. So that’s when it all started. And it became clear that that’s the, that’s to do this, had to become, registered and to become a so-called existing market dealer. So you’re, you’re literally go through a whole process to get registered. and then you supervised by a Canadian securities regulators. And I often say, you know, in Canada, we’re blessed with 13 securities regulators. each province, jurisdiction has their own regulator, pretty much. So, but obviously it creates a lot of, complexities. Right? So, so, at that time, I was also I spoke with people that, of course, have been in Canada much longer at any in the industry. And I was mentioning this idea to them and I sometimes, you know, get a smile on their face. I said, that’s, that’s cool. And you were saying, good luck with that, you know. So, and maybe it was like I was, you know, right. Still relatively new in Canada. I was very keen to do this because I just really strongly believe it gave me a lot of energy to go through these hoops with the regulators. But yeah, it’s been a tough journey. And even to get to that first point you have of getting a register exam, mark a dealer purely to to transact online, which was a novelty at that time. that in itself was a was a big milestone. and, and I, I wouldn’t, I mean, I wouldn’t even, I wasn’t even, you know, of course sure that I would, that I would get that approval, which I did. And then I rolled it out to, to other provinces. But but it’s important to know there and this was so this was 2000 I got that approval in 2000 to, 15. Now it is it’s important to recognize at that time, you know, everybody was basically sort of in the dark on this whole phenomenon of investment crowdfunding and opening it up, including the regulators. There were no rules in place. The only reason why I thought, hey, that’s potential because it was a rule that enables it’s been a long time around, for a long time, actually, enables you to enables companies to race from the public. it’s a so-called offering memorandum rule. I won’t go in all the details, but it was there in I thought, hey, that’s that’s great. I can use this, actually, because by using that rule, you can raise from both accredited wealthy investors as well as smaller retail investors. The only problem is Ford is offering memorandum. You need you know, you need to go through a lot of hoops. You need all those financial statements. You need it all documents. So for many companies, startups, particularly, it’s a bridge too far. So it’s good to to to again to realize at that time, I guess I, I initiated, let’s say, a party that definitely hadn’t started yet. There was nobody there, and nobody was actually even true that it even convinced it was going it was going anywhere. Right. So and that, I think, is also the reason that it has taken significant time to, to get through these, these, you know, these these hoops and get registered across the country. and actually pull all these bars of, of the front and from the, the puzzle of puzzle together. And on that note, just so, so, so, so it gives you an idea on how long that took in Canada. We have we, we have, harmonized crowdfunding rules only since 2020 1st September 2021. I remember very well it’s only a few years ago. So only then. So there were some rules prior to that, but it was sort of fragmented across the country, which really made it very difficult. But only in 2021 we have these harmonized rules finally in place. It enables startups to more easily raise capital from from the public. So yeah, it has been a bumpy, bumpy road for sure.

Jeffery: Well, it’s incredible because you could have at any point in time walked away from this objective, which was to simplify investing. And I think in one of the, podcasts or something that I had read on yourself, you know, when you first were talking about it, the excitement level that you had from your Ted talk and all the things that you’ve done about kind of talking, you know, pushing out the value of why this is important. And you mentioned that you’ve got, retail investors, which are people who use the product and they’re just someone at home. And you gave a great example of in the past where, you know, people that had put some money into, a crowdfunding opportunity got the product and two years later the, the eyewear product sold for a couple billion. And there was a huge gap there because there could have been an opportunity for those dollars to cross over to those people if they were treated as investors, instead of just someone buying an early stage product. And I think that that’s kind of the idea behind it. It still is that way today. But when you look at what you’ve now been approved in being able to create this unified and harmonized ruling, do you find that there’s still a lot more to go for you as a business in order to crack and open up this market for retail investors, as well as for high net worth and everybody else to be able to come into this one platform or into what you’re trying to achieve. Is there something that, you know, we haven’t hit there yet, but we’re still hitting roadblocks. And, you know, the ideal place that we need to be as an investment group is, you know, here X, whatever that is, do you know what that is? And you see that there’s an avenue to get there.

Peter: Yeah. And that’s a that’s a great question Jeffrey. Because you know we we talked about regulation, which is which is a key part because it’s an industry strongly regulated. So so that’s an important factor. Let’s indeed move on to to other factors because it’s not just about regulation. I mean, this is and this is also that I’ve been you know, that’s been a big job is, is that if you’re the, the first mover and we were the first mover frontrunner and kind of you also have to of course, you know, you have to, remove, remove barriers, as we discussed, but you also have to promote this whole phenomenon of, the fact that company startups can actually race from the public as well as on the investor side. You actually have to explain, that, hey, you know, you can actually invest in startups, and you don’t need to be an angel investor or a dragon on Dragon’s Den or VC, you know, could be you. Anyone could really invest because you can invest for such, you know, relatively small amount. So the level of advocating and, and, and education in, in this whole new, you know, investment crowdfunding, you know, investing in startups from the very beginning, that’s been a major task as well. And that’s and that’s another key factor that has taken time. And, and, so the and that’s still that’s still a big job. I would say, Jeffrey, that in, in Canada, investment crowdfunding is still in its infancy. It’s still it’s still in the early, early stages. So, so I do see, see now and, and in fact, if you compare to the UK, we spoke about it previously a bit where it started about five years earlier. We launched in 2015, the first platforms in the UK launched in 2010. By now in the UK, it’s basically went mainstream, about 40% of companies, use front from the like platforms to fully raise, you know, seed capital or, you know, growth capital, even on the way to series, series around, you know, 40% uses platform fully or as an additional channel to raise capital. So that’s kind of where this is going. and and of course, those that the on the investor side, it is also become more familiar, you know to people are aware of. Yeah. Actually you can invest in staff. So I think that whole building the market and advocating and education around it is still a major a task. And I would say we haven’t even really scratched the surface yet to be honest.

Jeffery: With the with the addition, I guess, to where the market is kind of fighting itself right now, where you have to spend a lot of money in order to gain and the interest from the user. Is there somewhere in here where government steps in and starts to say, you know what, this is part of the regulations, part of it. We’re going to start providing dollars into the marketing because we want this to be more, broad strokes. We want more financial institutions to start using front funder. Like, are there other avenues that start to support the model because you have been the early adopter to all of this, so do they start to adapt and provide, dollars in that start to support this, because they see that this is bringing a lot better governance and a better structure to the overall investment side of this, to the angels or series, wherever that might be. Is does it change anything with them?

Peter: Yeah. before I answer you, you can still see me and. Yes. Sorry, I thought I was for a moment frozen here. yes, definitely. We see change. To give you an example, in the early days, when I was, playing around with the idea of building a platform, an investment, crowdfunding, and then and has mentioned when I spoke to people in industry and I kind of you know, but as they say, small, but so, you know, we have good, good luck with that. And it was in general at that time, it was a lot of, I think, skepticism around this tool. I mean, as you can imagine, you know, and I remember with new crowdfunding rules that were sort of established players in the market, that say, well, we don’t need is we don’t want this. And, and of course, highlighting all the, let’s say, your risk and the downside of, of crowdfunding and why would the crowd have to be involved with investing. They don’t know how to works. And so there was a lot of, skepticism around it, from certainly from established parties. And it’s, it’s definitely, it’s great to see now, actually, that you see, you know, more traditional players in the market also recognizing like, hey, this is, this is this is not something this is certainly not a threat. It’s not going to displace traditional investors. This is complementary. It’s actually making the available capital ball, you know, way bigger each year by unlocking it to essentially the public. So evidenced by the fact that again, in the UK, we’re ahead of that with many of the deals that go on those platforms like FrontRunner, you typically have co-invest in co-investment by, you know, angel investor networks or overseas. So you can already see how it’s got, how it’s going hand in hand there. And so here in Canada, we definitely now see, you know, more openness, more interest, from, from, let’s say, traditional players. We actually have nil deals in the pipeline where traditional investors are, are jumping on board or actually and, you know, leading leading roles. So that’s, that’s, that’s that’s great to see. And, and, and also, other organizations, you know, angel networks, but also startup, networks, organization help startups, connect with investors. And you, they also actually reading LLC raising from the public for startups as a, as a, as a viable and then and and then increasingly important source of raising capital. So yeah, there’s definitely more and more and I would say adoption by, by, by other organizations in the startup ecosystem.

Jeffery: And that’s brilliant. I think that over, over the years. So I’m excited to see that this has shifted that much, because when we started to dive in and learn more about what you’re doing in 2016 and 17, there was a little bit of that. Well, I’m not sure that we want our startups to go here and all of this. For me, it was it’s just another lane. It’s another avenue to acquire capital. And I think when you start to look at all the different lanes that a startup founder can go to, to be able to build capital for their business. This is a primary example of a need, is that if I want to build a company, I want to be able to get people excited about my brand, get excited about my business. If I can raise from the public today that that allows them to be with me for the long journey. And I think that that’s way different than just having an investor angel in and having 20 or 30 of them. And I think that’s great that they’re in there. They’re supporting you on the business side, helping you work through it. But imagine being able to have a lot of brand advocates that are joining your business because they love what they what you do and being able to buy your product, but also invest in you right away at the beginning is phenomenal. I think that’s a it’s a great breakthrough. If we kind of shift a little bit here, when you look at all the different ways that people are starting to build dollars and raise funds, is there a number that you say you mentioned? 40% of all startups are using this in the UK. Is there a target number and some data that you can share around where you see your model going? So that can get people excited? The crowd can get excited to say, you know what, in the next three years, we look to be, you know, 30% of all investment should come through some form of, front fund or whatever those data numbers are. I’d love to hear them because I think that’s where the excitement really builds around what you’re doing.

Peter: Sure. Yeah. So, you know, as, as I mentioned earlier, like here and here in Canada, it’s still it’s growing, though. It’s it’s, you know, there are the adoption rate is is increasing. if you look at the overall pool of companies that that are using, you know, investment crowdfunding, raising capital from the public, you know, right now we’re still in the single digits, like, it’s just a few, few percent. and, you know, I think now with again, we’ve got the harmonized rules in place, we have we see it more and more becoming and, and we see that we see the industry growing. So, you know, for for us to see this, this really go to, you know, at least 20% in the next three years, will be fantastic. That means that basically, you know, 20% of the companies are actually using investment crowdfunding as a, as a channel, as a source to raise and raise capital fully or as an additional channel. I’d love it to be going into more to, you know, 50% and but, you know, in the next three years, I think it’s also I think it’s ambitious, but I also think it’s not it’s not it’s achievable. certainly if I see now on the last year and obviously last year with challenging markets and has been perhaps not the best year to sort of look at the growth or rate, but what we’ve seen since the pandemic and, you know, the structural growth bathroom, I can definitely see us as, you see us again there and see in general, we’ll see. See, you know, 20% of dollars being invested in startups coming from the public for sure.

Jeffery: That’s awesome. Because when you look at what the last 3 or 4 years of Covid has done is, it’s helped more people get educated in finance, more people are taking the road that they want to be in control of their finances, from the stock market to investing, you name it across the platform. So I think it’s exciting. To your point, there’s a really big opportunity here that in the next three years, you could be doing 20% of these and keep building on that number, because I think you’re going to start to see a lot of other groups shrinking. The more people trying to manage this type of, investment on their own. Now, to take some of the learnings that you’ve had throughout the journey of the last 20 years in the finance space, working on your startup, is there anything that you would share to a founder? Because like you said, this hasn’t been easy. So what are some of the things that you did that helped you move through this space quicker? Build a brand for yourself that you’re a driver, that you’re going to do whatever it takes to make this happen. And I can list a couple of things from, you know, joining the CMA, the, other fintech association. You’re doing a lot of things that support the environment around you. Are these some of the things that you would say to any founder? Look, get out there, join groups like what is the real piece that makes you stand out and that you’re able to actually be this first mover and be successful at it because you have pushed the envelope. Are there any recommendations you would have for other founders in this process? Yeah. you know, first off, in general, I mean, founders, startups, they’re they’re doing something new. They all have the, the, the ambition, the dream to change the world, and to innovate and do something, something new. And if it was that easy, and it would probably already be done by other companies or bigger companies or, you know, so, so, so first off, it really what I experience, it does come down to just being a big believer in, in, in what you want to achieve or what you want to, change because you know, for a fact that if you’re innovating, you’re for definition, you know, you’re pushing boundaries.
You have to, get through certain barriers. In my case, it was, of course, you know, about one of the factors, of course, to the regulatory environment, but we also spoke about other aspects like, hey, this whole idea of creating awareness, getting people excited about about this and also believe in it. So I think you can only do that by being a strong believer in yourself.

Peter: And, and you’ll meet a lot of people that will say, that’s not going to fly or it’s not a good idea. And, and, you know, so you, you, you don’t want to totally ignore that and say, well, if they’re not with me, they’re against me or whatever, you know, you want to, you want you want to listen to them and get an understanding of why do they actually why would I believe is not going to work. And, and usually when people say things or to take your position, there’s a motive behind it. Right. So if you speak with traditional investors, well, they probably have a motive that they’re not necessarily waiting perhaps for new kids on the block. Right. So for them to say, hey, this is not going to fly, okay. Maybe that’s the reason, right? So so you take all of that on board and you sort of, digest it and you take learnings from it. and, and, and ideally it helps you to even get a better understanding of why you believe in so deeply and why you will be, you know, persistent, about it because it definitely takes, takes perseverance that that has been my, my experience, you know, throughout the years. And so that that I think that’s all where it started. It’s where you got to believe in it and you got to you’re signing up for definition for for a bumpy road. You got to you got to be perseverant. And then the other thing you mentioned you need about, you know, organization certainly because we’re doing something new and the whole, advocacy and education around it was so important. Yeah. To, to to speak with and connect with people in the, in the industry through those. You’ve mentioned few associations indeed that I, that I, became a member of and actually one of them I joined to join the board and, you know, actively participated. You meet a lot of people. You got a lot of if in if of Intel as well as you sort of were as I worked on, on my startup. and it’s and it’s, it also helps you to get a better understanding and to actually contribute to the industry because you have then other influence. So I actually would, you know, what he’s doing with Frontier Learning. It’s interesting. It’s maybe something we should look at. Maybe we should push a deal to him. And, you know, so it helps you to basically, build a position in the ecosystem. So in my case, that was, of course, the really the startup and private markets ecosystem, if you like. So yeah, I think it’s really important to, you know, you don’t do all this for, you know, looking yourself in the room. You got to go, you got to go out there and again, certainly to to because it was so well and that, you know, so much innovative and you have to really share it it and surround yourself with a group of, almost other people that believe in it and want to help you.

Jeffery: I love that you’re utilizing the your ambitious, your drive. You’re using all of these skills that you’ve learned to keep the hustle and drive yourself forward. And I love the fact that you obviously looked at it and said, I have to make some friends out here in this environment. I have to work inside the ecosystem. I might as well try and do some things where I can support it and push it forward. And it reminds me of a great story of, another founder, which is very similar, story to yourself. is all or nothing brewery. And this was before alcohol and beer was allowed in grocery stores. So he joined every committee possible. Him and his brothers, so that they could be in the conversation about what’s going to go into stores. And they kept pushing it and pushing and pushing it. And eventually, when the beer was the first one into the market, guess who’s first? Beer was on the shelf in the grocery retailers, all or nothing. So very smart. And this was years before it was even possible. So just like yourself, years before was possible. So I think a lot of the time you have to think outside the box and figure, where can I make those connections.

Peter: Where.

Jeffery: Can I make those friends? And it obviously proved very valuable for yourself that over time, these are the people that are going to go to bat for you. They’re the ones that are going to want to maybe even invest in you. And all of that comes from being able to understand the market, but also understand where you’re going.

Peter: That’s actually that’s a great comment. Just click on that one. You said investor. You you know, I mentioned earlier on, Jeffrey, that you have people that started early days. So, you know yeah, it sounds great. Good luck with that. And and actually quite a few of those people are actually co owners in frontfunder. They actually invested in the company, as you know, as it when we launched the first one, when we launched the platform.
Right. And when and, and in fact, you know, I’ve raised multiple rounds myself for a front funder through front from so which is kind of a no brainer, obviously, but you know, list the front on our own on our on on our own platform and and so yeah. And I and that’s the whole point is that for startups, it’s a way of course to raise capital. But it’s also a way to, to, to literally, you know, get investors co owners in your company that, that our brand champions be they have literally a vested interest to, to talk about you to maybe they meet companies say check out front for them I’m interesting for your to their friends like hey you know I’m actually you know investing in front of a check it out. So so you know, I’ve always seen them not just as the investors that put money in a company, but, you know, they’re also, have a reason to help to, to create awareness and, and so, yeah, I have over 1200 investors, to today which for, for company my sizes. It’s it’s it’s quite a lot.

Jeffery: It’s amazing I think it’s brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. We’re going to.

Peter: Transition in.

Jeffery: Just a second. But there’s one question that I have to to dive into and ask. When you did your Ted talk, is there anything today that you would say differently or anything you would do differently in that Ted talk? I think it was fantastic, by the way. But is there anything when you reflect back and say, you know what, I should have used this, that? Or maybe today I would change it to say that this regulation, I’m going to crush it because I think it was annoying, whatever it might have been. I’m just curious because you shared a great story, and I’m just always curious if someone said, you know, I do this again this way.

Peter: Yeah. That’s a that’s a great question. Actually, not so long ago, I, I watched it back and it’s had been a while and, and, it’s sort of twofold because quite a bit in there, still stands like it’s still, it’s still, it’s still work in progress. you know, which which also shows again, like, you know, it’s taking, taking time, any part I, I gave some examples, there that are really taken from, from, from experience with companies on the, on the, on the platform and literally investors I met and started telling me about, like, hey, you can actually do that, sort of explain it constantly, which is it was a fantastic experience. I, I, you know, I think, what what one of the points there, I mean, the, the, the, the investing in companies that, you know, you’re, you’re excited about and you become part of that is, is is one thing, I think to to what I perhaps would highlight more now, I won’t share it really differently or I’d say it doesn’t hold anymore, but the fact that, you know, investing in companies, it’s not really, sort of necessarily a one off. In fact, it’s the opposite. Like I would double down on like, hey, if you actually and whether you have $100,000 you want to invest in private companies as opposed to public companies or $10,000. But, you know, if you, you know, do your homework, look at different companies and, and and make and make multiple investment sounds like. Yeah, sure. Because of course you see more traction platform. But the thing is that we all know like how it works with with investing there’s risk or an error. Rewards, returns, evolves. And we also know that for startups, you know, there’s typically a higher higher risk. So so let’s go back to the example. If you got $10,000 to, to invest, I was I was really incurs like, you know, get familiar with the startup startup ecosystem with typical risk involved with startups. And and before you look at the video, I think, oh, that’s fantastic. You know, that can only go up, you know, maybe say, I like that idea, but I got to look at, other startups in the, in the market as well, going to basically create sort of a you know, make multiple investments, you know, and at that point, Jeffrey, I think the market certainly wasn’t even ready for that. It was such a phenomenon. Still it still perhaps is. But I, I find it really important today that we’re talking about, you know, not like, this amazing company that I want to put money in support just because I like it. And I think it’s going to be great. But, hey, this is the just like many retail investors are investing in online platforms to invest in public companies or in ETFs and that kind of thing. You know, private markets is, is a is another, you know, asset class if you like, another second way where you can invest so, you know, look at it and encourage him to make to to to make multiple investments predator risk. And that’s probably what I would have today would have emphasized to be more.

Jeffery: I love it. It kind of reminds me of if you’re going to buy a new TV, you typically don’t just walk into the store and pick the first one on the shelf and spend $2,000 and walk out and say, I just bought this TV. You’ll do some research and you’ll learn what all of the different types of manufacturing is, what types of things you’re looking for, what things will appeal to you, your family, when you’re watching it, and then you’ll make that decision and you’ll make that investment because it’s a long term, 3 to 5, ten year investment on that. And that kind of goes very much hand-in-hand with when you’re going to go into a platform like yours. There’s going to be a lot of variety, but find the ones that you have the most knowledge on that you feel that you will not stress out about the investment. And as you said this, diversify. I put it into multiple areas, but at least educate yourself enough, deeper education on what is the industry, who are the competitors and what’s going on in the space before you make that investment. But just knowing that because you guys have simplified it, it makes it that much easier than scouring the rest of the world. You get a really good hand set of information in front of you, and then you can do the rest of it on your own time and come back and make that investment or multiple. So I think that’s pretty exciting. And, and certainly, delivers to what the world needs today, which is being able to learn, make an investment and then follow that company going forward from there. So, well shared. We’re now going to transition into the one of my favorite spots, which is the rapid fire. But before we jump into the rapid fire, we’re going to do the 62nd spot. So the 62nd rant, this is going to be ranting about whatever you like. I will make the caveat that only one person is actually hit 60s. So I will put my hand up at the end of the rant. At the end, the 60s keep going. Get it out. We want it to be the best. So when you’re ready to go, I’ll start the timer and like I said, I’ll wave my hand when you get to 60s. Or maybe I’ll wait a little bit if you’re doing, if you’re really on a roll, but, you’re ready to roll.

Peter: Yeah.

Jeffery: All right, let’s have it. So you’re on.

Peter: Okay, so we talked about regulation. We talked about things, moving more forward in the right direction. But I, I have to say that I am still really, struggling with, the regulators in Canada. I think the industry struggling with the regulators. I’m currently, if you can imagine, we can do capital raises, not only Canada but across the border, which we’re actually already doing. So we’re we’re having Canadian, we have a Canadian as well as US companies now listed on FrontRunner. well, to do that, we’re being confronted with all sorts of challenges with with cross-border rules. And I must say I’m currently in discussions with the with the regulators here in Canada to to remove what I see, like, rules that are not really serving any purpose. It’s not protecting the interests or the capital markets. It’s not protecting investors. It’s just simply because there’s a rule that, you know, your accounting, your accounting standards need to be based on. I won’t get I have to get a bit technical, I guess, but need to be IFRS. It cannot be US GAAP. So if the U.S company wants to raise funds in Canada, they have to convert. It makes it all very difficult. And I ask myself why is that? What is the rationale, behind it? to my mind. And again, it’s not serving a captive margin, not protecting investors. So I really, really like that. I’ll move, remove that. Get it out of the way. and, and I, I, you know, the Canadian regulators, need to, need to foster efficient capital markets. So let’s let’s let them work on this. Let’s remove this. And, and I really hope that we can, resolve this, quickly, hopefully that works this podcast. So it’s, it’s a straightforward request to the regulators, like, let’s just get this out of the way. I’m all for, for, simplifying but transparent and and honest capital market and but let’s remove the unnecessary red tape, because he’s just really, serving. No, no purpose making it very difficult for startups, for companies that are so keen to raise capital, as well as for investors say, hey, I like that company. Why can’t they call me off? So really, I, I need to sort out, as I said, I’m working on it, but, yeah, it’s, it’s it’s, it’s tough, it’s frustrating. but, I’ve seen it before. We got through it. So I’m confident we’re going to get this one, out of the way, too. I’m surprised I’m still of the 60s, but, you know, I can carry on.

Jeffery: Oh, you have 60s. I’ll put my hand up. But you were going, so. It’s all right. She was good. Yeah, yeah. No, you’re doing a great job. So my counter to this and typically what I was supposed to counter and, beat it up way. But it’s very difficult sometimes to find that counter. But I will share that, you know, regulations across the board, they have been put into place by hundreds and hundreds of years of laws and rules and regulations, and a lot of them haven’t changed because nobody has contested them. So they put them in there to protect themselves or protect the industry or protect this vertical. So in a way, you have something that’s protecting you. But somewhere there is a law, there is something that’s out there that you have to find the gap in to work your way around. And there is a lot of great material on this form of hack, which is the world is structured around finding the loophole and working the loophole. And when you’re able to work that loophole, that’s going to allow you guys to move forward. And, you know, there’s many different examples of how that is. But in the case of the regulators and how they’ve structured this, there is some form of legal legal loophole that will enable you to move forward, or enable them to change this. But the regulators have put these measures in just so that it creates bumpy roads and long durations. So maybe the whole point of this is that you have to look at it a different way. And maybe once you’ve looked at this a different angle, maybe that’s where you’re going to find the gap to make this work.

Peter: Who knows? Who knows? Jeffrey, I, yeah, I I’ve it basically heads on the regular regulator said, you know, I’m not even looking for any loopholes. I don’t think there are any in this case. neither for any any gap. I just basically, you know, take the bull by the door and say, look, this is what we want. this is what any answers are, everybody, what’s the what’s the problem here? But you actually, you are right. Like, I’m not fighting or against regulation. We talked about it earlier in this. In this both guys like I you know I, I do agree with actually their their regs and rules in place. Unfortunately the finance investing industry has proven time on a dime of the time that it’s actually needed. So I’m a supportive of it, but not just for the sake of we need to have regulation sort of suggests that it’s to provide some sort of security or or safety or when it’s when it’s not right, it needs to be purpose driven.

Jeffery: And that’s very common that we that I hear this a lot that there is rules that really don’t make any sense. They don’t associate with protecting the public or protecting someone’s financial, well-being, that it’s typically just the roadblock and it’s it does take a little frustrating. So I can totally understand where you’re coming from. well, either way, I hope the rant gets out to them and they start to look at this as well, and they figure out a way to shore this up quicker. So we’re going to move on to our next, segment. I appreciate the rant. It was very good. so we’ll jump into the business section, which is pick one or the other as the investor, so as yourself as the investor group, do you typically look for founders or co-founders?

Peter: One of them, co-founders.

Jeffery: That you rather invest in. Unicorns are four year, ten exits. And do you guys have to plan for this?

Peter: That’s a tough on the guy. Yeah, because I would say both, but it comes right. And I actually would say it. the second. So to the for you, there are lots of solid, businesses. And then for edge returns we’ve seen happy investors rinse and repeat for sure.

Jeffery: Love it tech or CPG.

Peter: From founder CPG.

Jeffery: Okay. NFTs are a web 3.0.

Peter: Web 3.0.

Jeffery: AI or blockchain.

Peter: AI

Jeffery: I first time founder or second third time founder.

Peter: Third. Time. Second. Second. Second. Second. Founder. Second time. Founder.

Jeffery: First money in or series a.

Peter: First. Money and.

Jeffery: Lead or. Follow.

Peter: Lead.

Jeffery: Number of companies invested per year on the platform or in general.

Peter: Per year. 6065.

Jeffery: I love it. Any specific verticals? Or it’s open ended.

Peter: Typically consumer goods. So CPG technology does well. But rather than let’s say, you know, B2B, it’s typically, B2C. Yeah.

Jeffery: Okay. Two qualities that a startup needs to stand out to you.

Peter: Passion, perseverance.

Jeffery: Safe or convertible note.

Peter: Convertible notes.

Jeffery: Okay. The toughest lesson you’ve learned. Through your platform or off the platform when it comes to early stage investing.

Peter: To early stage investing. It’s, yeah, it’s it’s it’s tough lesson. This is, rushing into it, not doing your homework. And making make a hasty and over a rush decision happened.

Jeffery: That’s good. I like that. Who is your mentor and why? Or hero and mentor. Why?

Peter: Well, it has to be the the recent book for about Netflix. I read now. It’s it’s great. My I know the book is called there are no rules. Rules. And I think it’s fantastic. the model of Netflix and that’s, that was it. I forgot I forgot his name. Now, but I am. Founder, founder, CEO of Netflix. But the way of innovating, the way of, driving, innovation and and talent and responsibility in your organization. and that’s incredible.

Jeffery: Greed. It’s Reed Hastings. I saw an article on them today because they crushed their numbers. well, they crushed their subscriber numbers, so they’re still growing. So I.

Peter: Guess Reed Hastings.

Jeffery: Pretty. It’s pretty phenomenal what they did. So, big fan, is there any piece of advice that you give nine out of ten times two founders.

Peter: We talked about already about, you know, believing in what you’re doing and, and perseverance talked about it. So let me, let me highlight another one. I think, you know. Talking surrounding yourself with, with with the people that can, can can help you build a business. I think that’s really and that’s and that’s so who’s been who have been there before basically. I think that’s really, really important. Think about mentors. Think about now advisory from the very beginning. And where where do you feel formalize that or does it matter? Well, basically having few people in network that you can, you know, ask for advice and and ideally multiple you get different perspectives. I think that’s really important.

Jeffery: Love it. What is your favorite investment?

Peter: And funder.

Jeffery: Yeah.

Peter: I won’t say front never that that’s also one but favorite. Well, the favorite investment part for me not talking about, you know, with returns. I mean, I had, actually a great investment that was an asset in, plant based protein. And so, over that time, the the the, a very good butchers now called the Good Food Company, that one was a convertible note. We spoke about that, and they, they went two years later, went went public and investors on the platform, including myself, and was certified 40 times their investment, which is extraordinary. This is not that. This is not like, this is extraordinary. But yeah, it can happen. So it it was a favorite investment. I have to choose one. So I’ll leave it with that.

Jeffery: I love it. That’s that’s a great investment. Yes. Agreed. What is your worst investment? And you don’t have to say names. Just. Is there a learning that you gained from this worst investment?

Peter: Yeah, that was what I said earlier. It’s it’s it’s, you know, it’s it’s because you’re right. We make it easy to invest in front. Funny. We make information available. We can literally invest. And you’re ready, you know, to be your fingers. and you can invest. Former first time investor in front from as little as ten minutes doesn’t mean you need to do that. It’s not like you’re buying, you know, a book online or whatever. You, you know, just take time. And so there’s an investment where, where, where, where I didn’t and where I perhaps, looked at the video and meant to say, yeah, this puts a lot of my homework and, and and. Yeah. And, and it’s not even where they’re invested where, where in south or, but it’s that was, you know, take your time. We make that information actually available to inform enable investors to inform themselves. So please do look look go beyond the video. Look at the overview. Look at read, look at their comments. Look at auto, any podcast.

Jeffery: Or anything you would reference on or do your take a look at your.

Peter: Homework. You know, listen to. Yeah.

Jeffery: If you want to list any of them or share one of the podcasts that you listen to that be great just to help out the community.

Peter: Oh, sure. You drove out there? Oh, that’s a what was the, listen to me, your new podcast. Listen to sorry. That’s great on right now.

Jeffery: That’s okay. What do you think of them? You can throw them back in, but we’re going to get really we’re getting close to the end here. So we’re going to jump into the last final questions, which are, personal side. So one or the other most famous person that pops in your mind.

Peter: Most famous. Person. Obama.

Jeffery: Okay. First brand that pops in your mind.

Peter: Right now, maybe because we talked about Netflix.

Jeffery: Like, okay, book or movie?

Peter: Movie.

Jeffery: Superman or Batman?

Peter: Batman.

Jeffery: Fortune cookie or birthday cake?

Peter: Birthday cake.

Jeffery: Five minutes with Bezos or Oprah.

Peter: Bezos

Jeffery: mountain or beach?

Peter: Beach.

Jeffery: Bike or run?

Peter: Run.

Jeffery: Big Mac or chicken McNuggets.

Peter: Chicken McNuggets.

Jeffery: Trophy or money.

Peter: Trophy.

Jeffery: Beer. Wine.

Peter: Wine.

Jeffery: Ted. Talk or book reading.

Peter: Ted Talk

Jeffery: TikTok or Instagram.

Peter: Instagram.

Jeffery: Facebook or LinkedIn.

Peter: LinkedIn.

Jeffery: Favorite movie and what character would you play?

Peter: Once upon a time in, in America. so that’s an older one, Sarah Giuliani, and what’s his name? It’s, yeah, it’s, it’s not Robert DeNiro. It’s the other one. I think it’s James Woods. I forgot his name and, his name in the movie.

Jeffery: You’d have to look that one up. It’s been a long time. But I do remember. Favorite book?

Peter: The book from, Steve Jobs.

Jeffery: Okay. Favorite sports team?

Peter: My favorite story of sports team. Blue Jays.

Jeffery: What is the meaning of success to you?

Peter: Happiness.

Jeffery: What is your superpower?

Peter: Just keep keep going. Perseverance. Go and get stuck I keep going.

Jeffery: I love it. Breaking barriers and keeping keeping yourself moving forward and always hustling and pushing. It’s fantastic. Well, I’m going to say that Peter, Paul, it’s been fantastic to dive into all of this, your background and learn all about how you’ve been changing a market and bringing finance to the rest of the the world and opening up the doors to something that’s been very exciting. And the next ten years are going to be even more exciting to where you’re going with this. But I want to thank you so much for joining us today. And giving us a great broad strokes view of how front funding works and how this business is helping generate value, across all layers of the investment world. And with that, I want to turn it over to you so that you can share any last words, that you want to share to startup founders, to investors. But I turn it over to you. But again, thank you very much for jumping on the show and being a rockstar, I appreciate it.

Peter: Likewise, Jeffrey, thanks for having me on your show and I really enjoyed it. It was a great, great conversation. And so yeah, it’s been it’s been a great time. final final remarks from my end for founders. We talked about about, you know, a lot obviously, but, you know, building, company sometimes say, you know, the only people that really understand me as a phone entrepreneur are other founder entrepreneurs, right? So we sort of share the pain and everything that comes with it. And I would say, on that note for founders, you know, speak with other founders and, you know, I’m actually a beer group with other founders, entrepreneurs. And that’s, that’s always that’s absolutely locked in my agenda. I never compromise on that because it’s that moment where I meet others and can vent and can bounce ideas. And so I would encourage founders to do that as a, as a piece of advice, you know, speak with other other founders, entrepreneurs and and of course, there’s fun, fun in the marketplace on the investor side, you know, I, I would I would encourage investors to explore to, the private markets explorer investing in, in, in, in, in startups.
You know, this is an opportunity nowadays where through investment crowdfunding, you can invest in companies that you believe in, that you want to see more of, that you want to see succeed. And you can now actually vote with your investment dollars and invest from the from the very beginning. So I would say read about it, educate yourself. Participate. Of course. you know, it’s an exciting, it’s a really exciting space for me and hopefully for many other people.

Jeffery: I love it, I love it, well, shared. Thank you very much. And is there a way that people get Ahold of you?

Peter: Absolutely. Of course. front funder.com is a great, It’s a great start. I’m obviously also in LinkedIn. I’d love to hear for people. People that’s, that’s, hook up with me. always, happy to have a chat. And so, go to a website on LinkedIn. Very easy to find me.

Jeffery: I love it. Thank you very much for the great conversation. Peter, Paul, keep being a rockstar. Thank you.

Peter: Thanks, Jeffrey.

Jeffery: Well, that was a great conversation with Peter. Paul, I really enjoyed, a lot of the feedback and the direction and everything that he kind of brought up around simplifying the business model, simplifying the problem and finding that problem, and simplifying it, which was, of course, in the regulations and the security side of running a fintech and being able to allow for everybody to be able to invest through their platform. And the simplify came a couple came across quite a few times, which it’s, pretty easy to invest with their platform. So they’ve really fixed that by allowing it to be simple. of course, going through the regulations, the time it took to do all of that, and he stayed focused and stayed driven to succeed in accomplishing this because of the value that he see, it sees that it brings. And you can see when it compares to the UK, where 40% of investments are going through these types of platforms, that this is going to happen. There’s going to be a lot more growth in this space over the next 5 to 10 years. And some of the other things that really stood out, of course, were joining groups, being part of the community of fintech or the area that you’re working in, how crucial that is to be able to launch the product and to be able to help change with regulations is being part of it. Surround yourself with great people. really love that, because that really does hone in on how you’re going to be the best at what you do. join peer groups. Like you said, there’s ways to bounce ideas by being part of other founder groups. So be part of those. They’re going to help you. You can post questions and have conversations and deep dive. All of those are going to be really valuable into what you’re doing. So outside of that, I want to say thank you very much for joining us today. If you’ve enjoyed this conversation, please feel free to share with your friends, subscribe to our YouTube channel and or follow us on Spotify, Amazon or Apple. Feel free to share an audio or video clip around our show, and we may include it in one of our future podcasts. You can find us on all social platforms, including LinkedIn, its supporters Fund. Your support and comments are truly appreciated. Please visit us at supporters fun.com and or startup events. open People network.com. Thank you and have a fantastic day.