Jeffery: Welcome to the Supporters Fund. Ask an investor. I’m your host, Jeffrey Potvin. And let’s please welcome Nicolas Rihanna, CEO of I am funding ISOC Iban Angels as our investor for today. Welcome, Nicholas. It’s a real pleasure having you join us.

Nicolas: Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

Jeffery: Well, I’m pretty excited to have you here, Nicholas, because we’ve had the opportunity to, I guess we’ll say, travel the world somewhat. We met in Egypt, and then when I was traveling through Lebanon, I was able to to come check out and spend some time with yourself. And what I find the country to be absolutely a beautiful country. So I’m excited to kind of dive into all these great things that you’ve been doing over the last 20, 30 years inside of Lebanon and pretty excited to jump in. So the way we like to start our show off is we want to learn a little bit more about you so perhaps you can share a bit of your background, obviously from the days, your education on side from being in Paris all the way through to spending the last 20, 30 years working as an accelerator and really driving some amazing opportunities in the Lebanon ecosystem. And then one thing about you that nobody would know.

Nicolas: Nobody, nobody. I mean, I was born in Accra, Ghana, but I surprised you didn’t know that. I did. You want me to go all the way back? So I have been, you know, expats outside Lebanon. So my grandfather actually was born in in in Ghana. So my father and then me and my my sisters and we moved back to Lebanon. You know, primary school was in Accra, in Ghana. And then we came back in the early eighties to finish up, you know, the country school and university in back in Beirut. So and so, A, I’m getting by birth and obviously with Lebanese blood. And then by education, I mean, I did a computer and telecommunication engineer in Beirut and then I went to France and did the PhD. So my first life was, you know, I was associate professor at the St Joseph University Faculty of Engineering. In my then years after my graduation and then the university, uh, which is a French speaking of which, is the Saint Joseph University, and it belongs to the Jesuits and what they did when the the order to go into, you know, the, the third millennium, the 2000 and then they wanted to like make a dent in the economy in Lebanon, not just education but the. So they came up with the first technology board or business development center or technology incubator for tech. And it was it was within the campus. And I was lucky enough to be part of the the founding team of this technology incubator. And then, you know, so I had two offices, one at the Faculty of Engineering and one as the incubator manager across the street on campus. So I had to deal with, you know, the students and uni students. And on the other side, entrepreneurs, whether they came from the the campus or from outside campus, any, any walk of life. So I started, you know, helping entrepreneurs, you know, as they did with the students, obviously. But, you know, entrepreneurs are a different type of breed. But it’s the same you know, I used to tell students, you know, you come in at the university and you get all the support of 44 years and then you get your weight as a successful student. Same for the incubator, because at the time it was like something that people didn’t understand. You know, it was really the early days of these types of words, you know. So it was semantics that no one really understood. And so I told them, it’s like you come in as an entrepreneur and you sit 3 to 4 years as well in the incubator with all the support that we give you, and then you graduate as a typical, you know, a good startup. So I had two heads, I had two bosses at the time. So I had the dean of faculty, who was my boss at the faculty, and then I had the chairman and CEO very thick, my second boss, you know, So it was really very hard to deal with both because, you know, it was not easy to coexist. But this is another story behind us now. And so I said, well, I so I picked up the activity in benefits, you know, And then slowly I started to shift, you know, to to this side of, of of the life. So I left my previous life and started in the finance and the incubation and, you know, supporting entrepreneurs, mentoring, etc., you know, coming up with incubation awards, you know, startup weekends. And really, I mean, did it all it was like 20, 32 years ago. So can you imagine at the beginning of these types of ecosystems? And that was quite the time. And so we had to really construct everything, you know, with the mentorship, you know, and, and all the the awards, the grants, you know, the competitions that the the hackathons, etc.. So we really, really all of those we built them over the years. And then in 2008, we started the first technology fund that was nobody. See, there was no a venture capital fund at the time. There was access. I mean, there was banks obviously that do lending. But, you know, the funds of money about startups couldn’t get access to this type of money because it’s it’s typical. You know, you cannot get that capital from a startup, you know, because you’ll have collateral, no history, no cashflow, etc.. So so we came up with the first technology fund, which was at the time really a pretty tiny early stage fund, $6 million fund that we started in 2008 right after the 2006. You know what I mean? I don’t have to remind you that, you know, we’re in the region, which is not that easy, you know, So it is we often have, you know, instability within within Lebanon. So it’s really hard to to I mean, to to come up with innovative stuff. So we came up with the first Fund six money at the time, and we we started, you know, this this type of of a VC investing which again you know it meant for startups to open up a capital, you know, and get other foreign investors in. So this is something that was not in the in the mindset at the time. We also had to change the mindset of the people of the Lebanese mentality, which, you know, it’s just the businesses and we don’t have enough capital. And what’s this new investors and what’s this fund? What does it mean, valuation? You know, you give up. So it was really a learning curve for all the ecosystem. So this was in 2008. And then, you know, we grew from one center, by the way, to three other centers in an incubation each in different campuses of the St Joseph University. So one in the campus of engineering, the other one by the medical sciences, and another one which is more a downtown by what we called the Beirut initiative, this in 2012. So so this is the activity picked up and you know, we had a community of of tens of of of startups and entrepreneurs that were either mentored, trained or hosted within within the community. And and what happened, I mean, in Lebanon, there are, like I said, to to to be two big dates, one in October 2013 and another one is first one is August 20, 2012, and the second one is October 2019. The first one August 20 different is when the Central Bank of Lebanon allowed the banks to open up the capital and to inject capital in startups. You know, banks usually do debts. They do not have the right to, you know, do equity. And so the central bank came up with a nice financing scheme, financial engineering with the banks to guarantee the whatever equity they put in in startups up to 3 to 5% of their own capital reserves. So this unleashed over overnight half a billion dollars of of investments in startups. So it really, you know, leapfrogged a bit the ecosystem in Lebanon where we had little access to finance as a startup community to really, you know, have $1,000,000,000. And it was like all the golden years from 12 2013 up to October 2019 where we had accelerators that were created to these programs. So this funds we have like ten of tens of funds that were created under this scheme of the central Bank of Lebanon through the banks. And so we had really an ecosystem that was starting to to to build out. And personally within all of this, I was managing a fund, the first one, AMP Capital, in 2014, which was geared to early stage. So it it was a $20 million fund. And this is particular because it was funded under USAID program. So it’s different from the Central Banks program. So it was this weird early stage where we did matching capital equity guarantees or insurance capital and technical assistance for startups. And to these to the first four or five years we created, you know, the accelerator program, we created a business angel community, a mentorship program with with the PMC program that they have. So we really built building blocks within the early stage ecosystem in Lebanon, right? So this is now October 2019. This is like a date is when the economic crisis hit Lebanon, you know, So other since so for me, there is a there is a life previous October 2019 and post October 2019 because post October 2019 and it’s before COVID because COVID came to you want you to 2020. So just to put things into context, but particularly in Lebanon, this crisis started in October 2019 where, you know, they had the revolution and riots on the streets, etc., and the whole banking system collapsed. So you wake up one day and all of your deposits, the banks are gone and there is no much liquidity. You can have access to your money. And then if you’re a startup that just got funding and also like 3 to $4 million funding like a month ago, suddenly you have you know, it’s like you had zero cash, you have you have the money at the bank, you know, you see it on the screen but actually don’t have access to it. You can transport it more cash about, etc.. So so everything collapsed since then and we went back to not even 20 years. It’s like to the prehistoric in the years because when we all started there was there were banks and liquidity at the time. Now there is not even liquidity, you know. So imagine you as a startup trying to navigate through with nothing. You know, there’s practically nothing. And then Q2, you have COVID. But since everything stood still, you know, worldwide, you cannot even get funding from outside Lebanon because, you know, everything stopped. And then in August 2020, we have the Beirut blast. You know, half of the capital got lost. So people psychologically, you know, were affected. If you are not affected as a business, but either your clients were affected, you know, so you have loss of revenues. And psychologically, I mean, you know, it’s you you can you don’t know what happened and what’s what’s going on. And in 2021, we started to have fewer shortages and electricity shortages, Internet shortages. So startups wanted really to relocate, you know, some really located outside Lebanon to try to have a business continuity. So it was really tough. Post October 20, 19 to to really, you know, to do this and and and and, you know, the value of the currency, it was really less and it still is maybe because we don’t have the government is just a caretaker government. You know, it’s really not that you don’t have cash, you know. So it’s there’s no we see those funds, but we’re the only ones that still have funds because it’s U.S. aid. And so we were lucky enough to have another 40 million on top of the 20 million that we got that started early 2020. So just on the crisis started to to finance. So and these were literally just like the only funding available for for startups. It was and it still is, by the way. And I’m sorry to say that it’s really, really scarce to get to have funding even today in 2020 in Lebanon. Right. So it’s it’s really it’s really scary. So what we did when we started, you know, when we got this fund and the rest of it, you want 20, 20 and we’re trying to figure out, you know, how to end is to close. So we created the first fund could save our sector from what can you imagine that come it doesn’t come in with the fund to save whatever startups were funded in the previous use in the golden years. So we, we selected around 11 or 12 startups in which we injected $1,000,000 in each to give them some runway, you know, to weather the storm, you know, to to pass COVID and to try to see if they could eventually grow outside Lebanon and try to get funding from outside Lebanon. So this is the first thing that we tried to do is to be relevant to the current situation. The second thing we did after Beirut Blessed is another initiative to to to cover the loss of revenue of the startups because they lost they lost any revenues because of their clients which got hit by the blast. So we gave them over four months, you know, loss of revenue for all 16 of our portfolio companies and for them to still keep operating to provide free of charge to their clients the the service of product so that these guys don’t pay for the product. So and this we did it for several reasons. One and the most important is to keep confidence that with here we’re going to help. We’re supporting you. Keep working. Don’t fire anyone. We’re here because we’ve got to support and we’re trying to to help out and find new ways to to get out of this crisis. So to to keep people engaged in good jobs, you know, and not to think about something else. And then the second following year, we created another fund for asset needs, because there were there is no banks and banks usually for these, you know, in debt or revenue capital. So we had to come up with a product similar to what the banks for seven years because they had no access to finance. So we create another fund and a semi fund for sale and manufacture and export companies. So again, give them $1,000,000,000 for them to be able to to, to to have financing for them to to grow their company to to to export. And today this you to again to be more relevant. We started our third fund the solar farm. So we’re investing heavily in again what should be done by banks you know investing CapEx for the sea of the sector, the commercial industrial sector for that to install solar and go to renewable energies for them to first of all, to have access to electricity, you know, because it’s scarce and it’s scarce and it’s super expensive because, I mean, if the demand is not of there is no electricity. So they either rely on generators and private generators and and diesel, which, you know, the prices have gone up and to have lower their energy costs so that they can grow, save jobs and be able to lower their costs of of a of operations so that that they are a bit more competitive you know in the local market or when they day so so we’re trying to be relevant and intimate with the quick products investment quickly so that you know, we don’t we don’t waste time because we need to go fast and to help out these companies that are in dire need of of these types of of funding. As I said, still no banks, nobody sees. I mean, how can you get outside investors to come in and invest in a country that, you know, there is no government? That is true. There is no president. You know, it’s it’s it’s super. I mean, confidence is not there. And we’re trying to to rebuild this confidence. And because we’re seeing in this country and we want to still invest in this country and try to do good and and, you know, try to bring back the confidence and show that they would be success stories even in the most in this shitty economy. As I said. Well, I had to I have to stop, you know, as I would I will keep on talking.

Jeffery: Nicolas. That’s what I’d say. Incredible. What you’ve what you’ve accomplished over this time and incredible what you’ve done for the country. I think that this is stepped up beyond, obviously, anybody that could possibly imagine what they would take to help an industry survive. And and for this for the small, mid-sized enterprise companies and of course, for the startup, I think it’s it’s incredible what you’ve done in building these funds. I find it what is most amazing about this is that of all the funds and all of the accelerators and everything that were based in the country prior, you were the only one that was outside capital. And now it’s structured that you’re the really the only one left standing and you’re almost becoming a bank in itself and being more supportive than the rest of the network or the economies that are inside of Lebanon. How do you feel that as you build out these new products and you’re stabilizing the environment with a population of I believe it’s less than 6 million, it sounds like so much has happened over the last few years in the economy. How do you feel that the way you guys have structured this, you’ve really supported the system? Is it is it flourishing for startups and inventors and everybody that’s just coming to the forefront to say, hey, I want to be part of this as well? What can I do? Are you finding that there’s a lot of a tribe building around this and really supporting what you’re trying to achieve here? Because again, it’s huge on what you guys have accomplished this.

Nicolas: Listen, that the short answer is no, we are still on our own. And I’ll I’ll I’ll give you a topic. I mean, the funds that we have created, I mean, obviously were small funds or to be the first one, which is a pre October 2019. So it doesn’t count the second. This one, the 40 million, it’s still it’s a small sum, you know, how much how much can you do with with that. You know. So we’re trying to to come up with, you know, structured, relevant quick wins, you know, and select, you know, these companies, whether it’s startups, I want to call them startups, because that post revenues their growth stage, etc., you know, and so so are the SMEs, agro agrifood, you know, these types of manufacturing that have really tens of jobs that that need to be saved. So so we I cannot pretend that you know, we really maybe not the middle of the country is the economy, but at least at least whatever we did, I mean, 12 startups from here and from there are, you know, a start that showed that at least, you know, there is potential, there are positive things that you can do with this little amount of time and money that we have. You know, we can try to replicate, I think this as a story and, you know, move around the diaspora and put don’t help us out because first, listen, with this small amount, we have really, you know, invested in the kind of like now to go back to the startups, unfortunately, which is our DNA, you know, incubation startups, activities, etc., very early stage. Unfortunately, the are not left on their own because there is no more of these building blocks that you built, you know, not angel activity, There is no accelerators. So it is super hard for startups now if I mean, maybe they come up from let’s say you have a couple of programs at the university based that, you know, maybe graduate one or two startups, but then these guys don’t have access to finance. I mean, there is a big gap between what they they need and before they can come to us as if you see or you know. So there is really gap that needs to be filled and you know, at least at this stage. So going back to the business angel activity, you know, private investors. So no, they can relate to I know people that know people, you know, and they get one investor from you to invest from there. But there is no like really a structured approach that we built over overseas, you know, So now we want to that’s why we talk with funds to fill these gaps. And one of our projects and it’s still this is one that I want to start, is to go back to create a small angel, I mean, small early stage fund, maybe between four or 6 million where we see this and we get private investors and, you know, and try to crowd fund this with with private investors, you know, to go back to the early stage investing so that, you know, we we try to close the loop a bit or, you know, have all the value chain of the landscape and to rebuild the it’s it’s piece by piece, you know, so so what so this does what we are trying to do and in the meantime, you know concentrate heavily on the later stage and the growth statements. And because they’re here and there are existing jobs, I mean, I always say I told my team, you know, after October 20, 19, you are in crisis. You don’t I mean, for me at least, I would not bring new kids during crisis. I would feed my own kids, you know, But I just think it’s for them to grow. So I would not think about maybe getting new Kids within this crisis will get them later. When we weathered the storm, we passed a storm. But today, let’s think ahead of the existing kids, because the companies that are growing, their SMEs that are here and you know that we need to help those and not go and, you know, try to find innovators and come up with the fight that there are there is a need. Maybe we will get there to one of these days. But today let’s concentrate where we we have limited resources. This is where we want to focus on, you know, growth later stage and, you know, and job creation at this level. Notwithstanding that, I mean, we know that there is a need in the early stage and we see them. They come to us, but we tell them unfortunately today we don’t have a product. We are coming up with an early stage of a product that we will hope that in Q2, in the next quarter or the future next, we will be able to launch and try to to cater for this particular segment of of the of the early stage cycle. So so what? So it’s it’s really tough and and what they say if we don’t do it unfortunately and I do not to brag when I say but if we don’t do it, no one is going to do it. You know, because we are from within and we are in Lebanon, you know, So no, do it from outside and from within. It’s super hard because we are the only ones that are here. So, you know, we try to be relevant and to come up with products that have quick wins. But there’s an opportunity. I mean, for us, when we started the busy, I wouldn’t think about investing in. So, you know, it’s like it’s like light years away. I mean, you spoke to hundreds of investor let me tell me who invested in in CNN. So it’s like seriously these are banks that do this. You know, these are products 5 to 7 years, etc.. You know, that related or lease, we came up with a least these two own product from a DC DNA. I mean, seriously. So just to let you know that this is something my it was I want to say was but you know you guys try to pivot and and see cater to the needs of the country that’s what you are doing you know and we’re learning, you know, to to deal with SMEs, which, by the way, are a different beast than startups, but it’s like completely different type of of of of human beings. You know, it’s really completely different. I mean, and by the way, I love it. This is something that I discovered, you know, talking to, you know, I mean, you have to start ups. You look at founders and they think that, you know, they can conquer the world and whatever. You know, they’re still young and whatever. And you have these SMEs, you know, these agrifood industries, etc., which have, you know, several family, family businesses. You talk to them, they know what they’re doing. You know, it’s like really it’s it’s it’s two different worlds. And you have to really cope with both, you know, and and there is need this, this, this place. So so what is this? This it’s hard and I just wanted if we would just launch the sort of last moments of several minutes you because it’s what the specifically the plot you know there’s I said you know that we have now I mean more than 20 maybe maybe 2425 megawatts of demand for our fund. That cannot get it. We’re just for like 20 megawatts. So just to let you know that there’s always demand and it’s whatever we can do with our own resources and the funds that we have.

Jeffery: I love it. Well, again, you’re you’re you’re challenging, you’re taking the challenge on and you’re you’re trying to solve a lot larger problem in a in a microcosm. So I think that’s the best way to look at it, is that you have to start small, protect what’s going to benefit the economy right now, which is obviously if there’s low power grids disconnect, that that’s going to allow people to survive. So that’s a good thing. And then on the food shortage aggro side, so I think all of the roles that you’re playing, you are taking over some of those pieces that a bank would take. And I think that’s a good way of looking at it. That builds the stability, but that also allows for dollars to start to come back into the country because once they start to see these things that are occurring and you’ve got survival and you’ve got production moving along, then there’s going to be more interest to come in. And I do know that, of course, as you mentioned, with no precedent, the government going in flux. What are the kind of areas that’s obviously quite relevant right now that you’re seeing with the collapse of tax and other bank systems? Silicon Valley Now they’re going through that and there is a lot of change in there. Had government stepped in to correct it. What are some of the things that you would say to a lot of the global startups and ecosystems? How would they protect themselves in this instance? Because as you mentioned earlier on in the discussion, is that a lot of these startups had $4 million in a bank account. It then just became null and void. What are some of the ways that they could protect themselves if they are in an unused economy where anything like this can occur? Should they distribute their money across different countries? Should they put it in blockchain and put it on Bitcoin? Like is there somewhere? And a thing that you’ve learned that says, here’s a better way to manage this, to protect your business as you grow? Because this could be a family office, family business, or it could be a start up, but activity to protect your your revenue and finance so that you can still pay your team and grow.

Nicolas: I mean, the kind of question and that’s been going on, the answer for that is cash. You don’t catch cheap cash at all. You know, it’s it’s over. I mean, when I told you I’m investing at least and you know, it’s a different beast from startups, you know, they have global booking and it’s always you know, it’s it’s it’s it’s it is what it is, you know, And then it’s returning, unfortunately or fortunately, into a cash economy. You know, it’s purely cash. We are invested sometimes in cash because not even the banks don’t have cash. Sometimes they close, they’re on strike or whatever, you know, two or three weeks they’re closed. So we have to invest. I mean, can you imagine just that I have money that I need to invest and cannot invest it because the system is closed. You know, they’re on strike. They don’t come to work because they come just once a week because of the devaluation and they get paid in advance. So really, the infrastructure structure was blocked for two, three years. So you have to keep cash. And imagine you keep keep cash. I mean, I shouldn’t say this, but I mean, it is it is what it is. And can you imagine compliance of the money laundering stops and whatever? So I had to deal with this. So we did whatever all the companies in Lebanon did, you know, try to create a structure outside Lebanon. So we started for us and we took a special okay from USA because we had to invest in Lebanon to create our funds outside Lebanon. So we went to Cyprus, which is the next door. So we had to create. So I have two funds created in Cyprus and I have bank accounts in Switzerland, outside Lebanon and in the UAE. So all the companies, all the startups, all the SMEs, all have either structures outside legal SPVs, outside bank accounts and cash at all. You know, it’s it’s when I’m investing now I’m investing like I have to pay up and invest. 100,000 says you’re paying me 200,000. Luxembourg 2000 in Switzerland and 100,000 cash in Lebanon. I mean, you know, so everyone diversify their revenue. So it is what it is. And the company is operating in Lebanon. You know, all the jobs are here, you know, all the factories here, all the fatal disease, but, you know, have to making jokes outside Lebanon, plus the cash, you know. So imagine other thing, companies like that, that’s a support to you. So so so it’s diversification and it’s key. And, you know, and life goes on in Lebanon. I mean, in the US it took a weekend over the weekend that everything was sold. You here in Lebanon, it’s like three years and nothing. So you know so there’s a part of the economy that is moving that has, you know, slowly but surely put in place, unfortunately, to the banks that the banks are like the now that the Western Union and all empty or these is they just there’s they’re not they’re not banks there’s no banking activity honestly. So it’s it’s unseen anywhere in the world. We had for I mean in Lebanon you had the Lebanese towns and the thought of, okay, we have four grades. So the dollar for the Lebanese for us, I mean, it’s it’s unheard of anywhere else. You know, how can you audit and look at auditing books, reports from a company where you are you have for rates, whether you don’t know which rate. It’s you have to ask what it is, you know, and and the date of it, etc.. So it’s it’s really you have it’s bullshit. You have to put it in the trash because it doesn’t represent the market reality, you know. So imagine doing valuation with these types of of times. Imagine looking at books. It’s, it’s really, really tough. And this is something that you don’t learn in MBAs or whatever. And it never happened anywhere else, and it won’t happen anywhere else. You know, I’m sure it won’t happen anyway. So whatever we learned today, unfortunately, it’s we don’t brag about it because I’m sure that if it’s going to be applicable anywhere else, you know, so. So what are we We talk about it, we laugh, we joke. But I mean, it’s a sad reality, you know, that we are coping with and us it’s funds, let alone the startups that have to maneuver, etc.. You know, so, so so the short answer is this diversity try to put in, you know, or recipes outside, outside the country and having bank accounts outside the country. But then, you know, compliance, another issue, you know, and then you have to like, justify the transfers and whatever. But I mean, this is something that is secondary. But I mean, this is the short answer.

Jeffery: But it’s interesting, again, on the financial side and how you mentioned that there’s four different rates. And I remember a year back when I was just under that, but when I was there and trying to sort that out and I was getting into Nuba and I thought, Oh my God, this is going to be like a $400 Uber to go ten kilometers. And I was scared because I had no idea. It didn’t make a lot of sense at the time that there was this much of a difference on how the capital was operating and working. And of course, once you’re there, you start to realize that there’s multiple, multiple markets. And what’s fascinating is that this also occurs in other countries. We’re not always privy to how the economies always work, but in Tanzania, they have the same issue, they have the same in India where you have black, white, black market money. So they operate on two different levels and the transactions do as well. But what I find fascinating is that even if you go, other countries that are startups are creating companies they are looking at because this the economies are not stable enough, how do I build this somewhere else? So Egypt, they build them in in the UK, so they start structuring their companies outside of the core banking system because again, they’re they’re really trying to protect themselves because they don’t know what that’s going to look like in the future. And even so, today, you don’t even know if where you’re banking outside the country, if that’s even going to be stable, because the banks seem to be kind of cheating on their governance and being banks, as you mentioned earlier, and they’re becoming just a transactional, taking their cut, but they’re not really acting as banks anymore. They’re kind of losing that governance side and the securities side where you can know that every day you go there, your money’s going to be there, or that you can get it out no matter what occurs in the economy. So this can be very scary. And in a smaller population that’s trying to survive and grow through all of the different economic hardships that a country is going through.

Nicolas: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and here it’s even worse because it’s unpredictable. I mean, you don’t know what’s going to happen the next day, you know, And I mean, you sleep one day. The next day the dollar pressed from 1500 to 15000 because the central bank decided the governor decided, you know, to to to make it ten times overnight. And you not you know, I mean, it’s and you wake up, it’s like, okay, so right now it’s 50,000 and you have to cope with it. And it’s even worse because then and I mean, the customs has its own rate to the dollars, you know, the VAT has a different rate to the dollars. I mean, it’s a mess and it’s really a mess. And sometimes it’s really hard to find and to see the big picture, you know, you have to everyday talk to your attitude to see what’s going on, How are we going to pay the salaries? But with trade, you know, and the taxes are going to be what rate, you know, And it’s it’s really a mess, you know. So but I mean, it’s part of I mean, the price to pay to be I’m going to say the price of.

Jeffery: So in this economy in the way things are operating, do you see this as an opportunity to be able to really dive in and invest in some great emerging companies? Or do you find that over the next year or two it’s going to kind of be up and down? You’re supporting the companies that you mentioned that are really driving the economy, but the ones that are going to be coming up, new innovations that are kind of scary to look at because you can’t predict the future or like how are you kind of valuing the economy? Because it does sound like there’s an opportunity. There’s a lot of I read a lot of articles that there are a lot of Bitcoin mining companies that have started up in the area as well in Lebanon, which I find fascinating because of the power changes that are going on. But there is a lot of these different groups that are starting up.So I think there’s a lot of entrepreneurial innovation that’s coming from it. Maybe they’re finding outside dollars, but does this really show that because the economy is in the state, it is that there are a lot of great opportunities. It’s just a matter of how do you harness them and is it worth harnessing today or do you wait a couple of years until the economy gets a bit more stable or a government gets put into place?

Nicolas: You know, for us, I mean, we can’t wait. We have to see today so that you are prepared to to use when things pick up. So this is different. So that’s why first, we is the best opportunity to date is investing in the renewable energy. And sort of so because it’s a no brainer, it’s a no brainer. And for me, that’s why I accepted to venture into this this opportunity as it is, because you are I mean, there are sadly the companies are doing so it’s a no brainer for them to pay up the the finance because of the savings that they’re doing. They get out. So so it is the least risky opportunity that you can come in today in Lebanon. Okay. So this is this is on one hand. So this and to your point, a couple of questions ago about, you know, getting foreign investment or a bit of capital into Lebanon, we are hoping and I might make that I’m hoping that this solar opportunity, because it’s less risky, because people get to, you know, and it’s not as risky as, you know, an early stage startup that it might get investors or expats, at least, you know, Lebanese expats, which anyways, are giving remittance back to to to Lebanon, you know, because they had the villages, the families, etc., you know, on a grant basis to see this as an opportunity to not just give back but actually make money. So they are, first of all, giving back and having an opportunity to make money. So I’m hoping that with this, if we’re able to really raise funds from private investors, you know, to try to attract capital and people coming really getting money back into Lebanon and getting a bit of, I would say trust back to to the system, because you cannot like tell an investor, investor, you know, invest in startups in Lebanon. You know, he lost his money at the bank. You know, has I mean, it’s so it’s a bit hard for for that. But if you give them a budget of solar, which is like a no brainer, where every quarter you get you get money back and your IRA is 20%, we were able to do a product that is not quite expensive for the beneficiary and gets up to 20% of IRR to the investors with really low risk approach. So this is something that we actually are able to fundraise with this product. You know, and again, as I said, the early stage of the startups, the innovation is still there and it’s the back burner and we want to look, you know, try to invest and try to come up with a product. And for me, when I do, when we when we do these products, we’d like to for them to be like no brainers, you know, because we it’s we answer directly. It needs, you know, and then with no friction because we iterate and we talk to the beneficiaries, etc., and we try to come up with a product that is frictionless. Okay, So this solar farm like this and so I really like these verse in less than a year because, you know, it was frictionless and was like a no brainer. People get it and they see actually that the value, the value of it. All right. So same thing when we come up with the the start up or the early stage fund, I wanted to be like a no brainer where the the, the whole step up is is very positive. And and unfortunately one of the barometer is you tell the investor or by the way, the fund is invested outside, it’s outside Lebanon the funds that so you’re minimizing a lot of the risk you know that you didn’t even think about both pre October 2019. So we take all the boxes you know, because we’ve learned over the past two years and then come up with a product where maybe we can guarantee 50% of the capital of the investor that I put in the startup. So trying to to make a product that is really appealing, you know, for those that want to really reinvest in Lebanon and put in, you know, they have their money and try to get some money back. So this is the pitch. If you want to try to get back the the the confidence. So but but again, whatever you say, you pitch the first thing they say, okay, country this Yeah find the country is still there You know it’s I cannot beat that but I mean I can show you track record I can show you you know good investments. I can show you a semi performance and then you decide. I mean, yeah, the truth is there is a country risk, but there will still be a company risk. You know, the level is still what it is. And It’s surrounded by geopolitical politics that will still be there. You know, it’s so you cannot argue with when someone comes to tell you, you know, as the company this two countries.

Jeffery: Agreed one of the things that you mentioned that I well all of this last little segment that you’ve talked about that I really liked is that finding yourself innovative ways to support an economy, finding ways to make investments, you’re not going to the standard, classic way to invest and say this is how we do it because this is how it’s been done. And you mentioned one that you helped companies with revenue loss to support them so that they could get back on their feet so that people could get paid. I love this because you’re finding ways to change the way venture works because you’re trying to put money back into the hands of the founders or into the teams. The people get paid and they continue to live and build and grow in this economy, especially on what’s what you guys are surrounded with. As you mentioned, on the geopolitical side, what what’s the impetus that you find investors are looking for when you’re coming back with these types of solutions? Are they telling you come back with a better solution and we’ll be happy to make an investment? Or are you looking at this saying, you know what, there’s no way we can follow this standard classic venture fund model. We really do have to change this and come up with more innovative ways to invest. And this is why we’re coming up with these, I’m going to say, super amazing plans because they do sound very simple and easy to kind of move your way through and get your business back into shape to be able to keep selling.

Nicolas: Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s it’s it’s I mean, if you asked me that question last year, I would answer differently or the year before I saw differently because, you know, things change and the race to the bottom change. And, you know, we had to raise that. We raised four rates, you know, So it depends on when we’re doing the fund. And and so the first fund that so far we’ve raised capital from private investors today, I couldn’t do the same. I cannot do the same, you know, because it was a different thesis at the time. There was a different framework. And, you know, the banking, I mean, the banks or, you know, the economy was different. Yeah, the city fund 18 months later, again, difference. I think this is about different type of investors, different different approach, you know, different products. Today, it’s like we cannot do the same. But we did you over the two previous months because now the economy is like polarized. It’s like fully polarized. Now you go to restaurants, you have the butlers, you being butlers, etc.. The black market rate is like the rate you know, everyone is following what up? So everyone is what you call the fresh starter, you know, so so practically everything is dollarized. You go to the supermarket, you’re paying dollars, you go to fill your car, it’s in dollars, etc.. So so what I know today, it’s like it’s the dollar back to whatever it was. You know, it’s like the dollar rate. So so those are get paid in in Lebanese pounds. They’re the pool. They got poor. And those that got paid in dollars are, you know, and what they are, they’re still surviving and able to cope and it to go because it’s it’s it’s it’s so no way to have to raise funds. You have to raise funds with fresh funds, you know fresh loans and today investments one of the the the pitch for the investor is that guys are putting your money at the bank because you’re putting them because you’re afraid to put them at the bank, putting them at home. It’s risky because they might you might get stolen whatever invest them in this fund disorder, etc. that has revenues, that have you going to see your money is actually your money from day one. You know, it’s not like you have to exit you seven and then you know, you might not so so it’s these types of, you know, stupidity that unfortunately you have to deal with when you come up with and talk to investors, you know, the first thing they see is a risk, let’s say. Yes. Okay, fine. You know, but we come up with this, this, this to to to counter all of those nice things that you have, You know, So today, when we pitch it to investors and this sort of honestly, it’s like a no brainer. And when I pitch it, I mean, the only excuse that I have is totally is, okay, fine, because you don’t see a flaw in the system, but the company is fine. You know, this is the only flaw is the company. I cannot help it. You know, all the other boxes are fixed, but the countries it’s out of. It’s it’s out of my it’s a challenge that I cannot. I can look, you know, so. But but my answer is that the companies that we are going to invest in because we’re a small fund, we might actually like 20 companies, which would be like creme de la creme of the best. You know, we won’t have a nonperforming loans, you know, or maybe ends here because the companies we’re going to help fix them because it is what it is. We’re limited in funds, obviously going to pick the winners, you know, or those that are bankable or we can give you our money back. And these companies today, despite the three or four years, they’re still existing and working and making money and growing. So chances are they will stay because I’m guessing the the the the the worst is behind us. I’m guessing, again, I don’t have a crystal ball down to this geopolitical risk, but I’m guessing things only get better because when you get the president hopefully because the next thing is to get the president to vote so things will get better. You know, again, I’m guessing, you know, I don’t have a crystal ball, but, you know, intuitively you get the IMF, etc.. And and so you get, again, three or four years maybe of flourishing. And so and so these companies today in dire needs, things would only get better because they survived the crisis. So chances are they’ll still be here in a few years if they and things get I hope only get better so far. So this is the pitch that I get today for those that want to invest to to put in money in Lebanon. This is the pitch.

Jeffery: I love it. And to to kind of, I guess, take that in and move it forward a little bit. What’s the toughest lessons you’ve learned so far as being an investor in in Lebanon.

Nicolas: Is to keep cool, really keep your head cool, because every day it’s a new day. I mean, sometimes I mean, when you sleep a 1500, the cup of 50,000, you know, the things that come in your mind about the money that have the bank and what you’re going to do and how it affects your portfolio. And you have to keep cool. It’s it’s not easy, but really, really it’s keeping cool. And when I say to someone, you know, how are you today? It’s not just physically, it’s really meant that, you know, how are you mentally? How are you coping? Okay, because really it’s not easy. And when you see people that are talking about the crisis, that they’re totally I mean I mean, it’s not easy. It’s it’s I mean, it’s this is it’s tough. And you have to really keep keep cool. Keep cool. I keep a cool head. It’s not easy just because you’re in a shaking every day. Every day shaking. And so keeping cool about it is the most important, very important. You know? And recently I was talking to my team. I look at the portfolio, etc.. I said, we have to make sure that the people are okay, the founders are okay. We have to coach them. We have to be I mean, it’s it’s really we have to show them that we are here and that they need us and answer them, you know, because it’s super hard for them. You know, I’ll give an example of one of the investment. I mean, we invest not just in tech, as I said, we do asset needs, etc., and we invested in a in a bakery, in a bakery that is in the north. Women, let’s. Okay, that’s healthy snacks. Super good. I fell in love with the with the story when when she pitched it to me, I went to see the bakery. I told my team, whatever it is, we got to invest in this. It’s a super nice story. You make it happen. I don’t care, you know, And we actually invested like, fast forward, uh, she she, she’s, she’s so and that very environmentally friendly, healthy, you know, planting trees to offset the CO2. It’s really, you know, something that’s out of this world. And she supports at least, you know and and hackathons and marathons, you know, supporting with the snacks and whatever and sponsoring this stuff. So it is. And then she she switched she did a like a traverse from Cyprus to get to okay. She came and then she came to to Lebanon. And on October 17, 2019, when really the crisis hit and when the crisis hit, you know, roads were blocked, etc., etc.. And, you know, and she she didn’t know about that. She was swimming, you know, when she arrived. I’m sure she was expecting everyone to be there because there was you know, we were supposed to be there, you know, a press conference, whatever. There was no more because no one could even reach there. Can you imagine the oppression which you are right, you’re expecting, you know, and then should happen in the country? You know, I mean, this if women Yahoo! I mean, can you imagine what goes through your mind? I mean, so and and now when when you leave the when I when I when I traveled for two or three days, I really worry if I’m able to come back or not, if it’s going to be cold or not. You know, it’s it’s I mean, sorry I’m thinking all this, but I’m still in Lebanon are optimistic that doesn’t happen. But this is stuff that goes into your mind and it’s not easy. You know, it’s it’s more than 50% of your time worrying about stuff that you should worry about. I mean, I would have never took Cyprus. I would have never thought to put in money in Switzerland. You know, the complaints that I have to do what the the traveling that I have to do and stuff, I mean, I’m not obliged to do this. This is more than 60% of my time focusing on my job. So and everyone is doing the same. They were doing the same, you know, trying to figure out Internet continuity, business continuity. You know, I mean, it is you have to keep cool. And this is and and and what what they say is like if we if I, if if when you say if you cannot think, say, 550 and then, you know, you would think about what we what we do afterwards. But again, but just to take a step back and think about the future and plan. So if I, if I think is necessary but it won’t get us out of this, we have had, I think, you know, to set the guys. And you know what I’m.

Jeffery: Well, well shared. Honestly, that was kind of tied to things in there with the case study and then kind of the toughest learnings there. I do agree that keeping cool is always helped people think and plan better instead of reacting and then thinking after how I could have done that better. There is a lot of taking a moment and pause and breathing. I think it makes a big difference. So thank you for that. We’re going to switch now into the 62nd rant session. So you almost started on some of it. So I should have probably tied three segments altogether because that was that was a great read. So the way this section works is that I’m going to I’m going to tie in 60 seconds and you’re able to go in and talk to a rant. And the rant is really around something you’re passionate about. So you think of whatever it might be that you want to kind of open up Pandora’s box too. I’ll give you 60 seconds and then I’ll come back with some minor rebuttal and then we’ll close that part off and we’ll get into the rapid fire question. So give me 2 seconds to hit starts and when you’re ready, you’re on.

Nicolas: Listen, I like to innovate, you know, come up with new products. And and that’s why I when I explained to you that I’m doing, you know, every year, every 18 months new products, because this is what keeps us going and motivated and motivate the team, especially, you know, because you have to keep the team going and show them that we have to stay in Lebanon. You know, And the thing I say, I do not get my sense. I mean, I don’t I cannot convince anyone to stay in Lebanon. What I do is that I tell them, you know, that those that want to leave. I was personally driving to the airport. I drove my two boys to the airport and they left to Canada, to Montreal. So I cannot convince anyone. My kids. I drove to the airport, each one to leave. I was driving to the airport. You want to stay for a stay? You stay with us and we do something great. We come up with nice products. We had the economy, we invest, we create jobs. And when we look back, it’s really something that’s very cool that we’ve done. And this is my one of my.

Jeffery: I love it. Well done. Well done. You know, it’s such a tough sport because not a lot of people in the world are faced with if I come home, is my country going to be okay and let me back in? Or the reverse side is while I’m in the country, is it going to be stable enough for us to move forward? And I know there’s a lot of countries that are going through things, but we don’t always imagine that we’re going to be live talking with someone that’s saying, hey, this is real and I’m going through this every day. And the repercussions are how much impact it does mentally on you and your teams and how you live in a country. So what I guess to rebuttal against this, what is the factor? What’s the way that you get people to stay loyal and stay in the country? So like you said, your kids are going to school. They’re doing they’re expanding the horizons. They’ll be back. But how do you get people to say, you know what, this is my country, I’m going to fight for it? What if they have to do a little bit differently? Or what things messages can be shared that get people to stand behind the country and not want to go abroad? And again, your kids are different because they’re getting education, which is a good thing. But what is the what is that impetus that makes people feel like I have to be patriotic at this time because the country needs me?

Nicolas: This is something that I mean, you have to live it. It’s it’s very hard to to to convey. You know, it’s because, again, this is very subjective, you know. But what I say is that, again, going back to my my, my, my pitch is that we are here to stay. Look what we did within the last two, three years, what else to put up. I mean, we have my stories. If we were not here, there wouldn’t be these stories because we are here. This is what we did. We really created history. I mean, we did stuff. We’re not done and you don’t. So if this is not enough, I mean, you have to stick it out. I mean, when I told it, I mean, I remember when we did that, we did a town hall meeting with all the team after the August four blast. You know, like all the part of the group is like 70 or 80 people. We’re one of those subsidiaries on the phone. And we were talking to this 80, 70 people. And there’s the chairman of the group was really depressed and I took over. I said, You can’t be depressed in front of 80 people. You have to really convey positivity And I said, we are this is what we did. And we did a town hall, by the way. I mean, that’s the with the university, because it’s the first incubator. It’s within the campus of the San Jose University is what I was what I thought what I graduated from and I taught for like 15 years. So I know it by heart. And we were in the theater of the university and it was like the glasses wore off because of the blast. And I told them, you know, history is repeating. It said I was in the same amphitheater 2020. I mean, in the 1990 when I graduated the war was over. I could have left I could have left the country and go to France. And I chose to stay. And because I stayed at the university with this tech, this is what you do. I mean, look at I’m not saying I achieved a lot, but I can say that because I stayed a witness, at least I witnessed and was part of this this change. So today I’m not leaving because I’m sure because I did it, but I’m going to do the same. And I will look back in ten years or 15 years because I stayed. This is what I did, you know. So this is the message of I said to them, you know, ad hoc on the spot. I said, this history is repeating itself. And sorry. And I said, I am too. And I used the f F-word, too tired to redo it again. I’m old, you know, it’s like Al Pacino in the in in the center. Woman. You know, I’m too fucking blind and I’m fucking old, you know, to redo it again. But I will ruin everything again, man. I love this country. I love it, and we can’t. And we have the privilege and the opportunity and the chance because we’re in this sphere and space is to make a difference. So make a difference. And you have to be proud of it and happy about it. And so this is it’s conveying confidence to the troops.

Jeffery: I love it. Well, Nicholas, I think from everything you shared, I would give you my vote to step up and be the president of Lebanon. So I think you’ve accomplished some pretty amazing things. So and, you know, just from that a little I will call it a little entry speech. But, you know, you have to be proud and confident. And I agree with you that that carries a long way and a lot of people get behind that. So maybe we’ll blast this out so that people will also get behind your mission, because I think what you’ve done is absolutely phenomenal. So we’re going to jump into rapid fire questions. We’re almost there. And again, I think I could talk to you all day because there’s so much amazing interest in what you’re doing and how you’ve done this.And I think that as a doctor, I think you could really use all of the things that you have behind you in your tool belt to really keep making a difference. So I love it. All right. Rapid fire questions. Pick one or the other founder or co-founder coming in from an investor standpoint, of course, which would you go with founder or co-founder?

Nicolas: You mean you mean if I wanted to be a founder or co-founder.

Jeffery: I know as an investor, which which option are you choosing? Would you invest rather invest in co-founders or would you rather invest in founders like single founder or co-founders of co-founders, co-founder, Unicorn, or a four year ten X exit for you?

Nicolas: That exit at my age, you I want it liquidated.

Jeffery: I love it. Tech or CPG.

Nicolas: Tech.

Jeffery: Nfts or web 3.0.

Nicolas: What people do.

Jeffery: Ai or blockchain.

Nicolas: Ai

Jeffery: First time founder or second third time founder.

Nicolas: Obviously second or third time founder. But I mean, I would meet the first five founders way and then the.

Jeffery: First money in or series A.

Nicolas: Both.

Jeffery: Angel or VC.

Nicolas: Both. By the way, I didn’t talk about my experience as a as an angel because, you know, all the funds that I created, by the way, I put in money because, you know, you cannot, like, convince others with money if you don’t put your own. So I’ve been really investing in all the VCs, in all the funds and studies that is created over the years. So so I so I would do it as a I mean, I would prefer to do it as a VC because unfortunately, as an angel, I don’t have time to, you know, because the angel has to help. I do not engage in the company. So it’s a bit I don’t have the time for it yet.

Jeffery: For sure at board Seat or observer.

Nicolas: Uh, either either I’ve, I’ve come to realize that, I mean, observer is good enough because, I mean, if you’re a board seat and you’re outnumbered, it doesn’t make sense. So I was able as an observer to, to get the board to change the CEO. So for me, I in a company that was not doing okay so, you know, observer is fine because I know I can have leverage to change people’s minds and so voting is I mean, I can be I’ll go to the bottom of the most.

Jeffery: Favorite part of investing.

Nicolas: My favorite part is when you meet the entrepreneur at first, you know, and you learn the new stuff that he comes up with and, you know, and fell in love with it the first 5 minutes or not. But then the rest is like technicalities. You know, it’s not much like the first thing. The first encounter is where you learn to 3 hours and that’s what you you get to learn it for the entrepreneur and to learn this thing and that. I mean, and then the rest is technicalities.

Jeffery: Number of companies invested per year on average.

Nicolas: Maybe six or seven Perfect.

Jeffery: What are the pieces of advice, like one or two pieces of advice that you would give founders nine out of ten times?

Nicolas: Uh oh. That oftentimes founders, you know, in Lebanon, things change. I mean, interesting, especially post October 2019 or pre October 2019. Honestly, it’s it’s for me, it’s it’s three October 19 is meaningless. You know everything we change all the mentalities, you know so it’s it’s first thing to do you start from Lebanon but but grow outside Lebanon, you know as fast as you can because one it’s not just a small market. That’s it’s the shaky and risky market. You know, so is to rapidly grow outside Lebanon.

Jeffery: That which tech or what tech defines the world in the next five years.

Nicolas: It does. I don’t of course.

Jeffery: Yeah it can be space travel rockets blockchain. What do you think is going to be the number one tech that’s going to just change? It’s changing the world and will be in the next five years.

Nicolas: I think. I definitely hope these platforms are crazy. I mean, I mean, it’s like the tragic beauty of all this, these platforms. I mean, that it’s it’s crazy. I mean, I’ll give you an example. I think each of the principals at the University of the executive agree. And, you know, they have to four teams and whatever and I coach a few teams. And so one of the teams, they were coming up with a product, you know, because there was the earthquake, you know, a couple of months ago in Lebanon. And so they thought about you were coming up with something that would, you know, you have your home like a quake in your home, the shelter that you will go into, that you can do it yourself, whatever. And I said, you know what, to find traction, you know, try to do a video and put it on TikTok, you know, and using these platforms, they were able to to do it, you know, and have a person that interviews it at the start of the video. You’re just like the type of stuff that you want. And it comes video they put out there. And and this week they had 500 likes. I don’t know how much a viewer is acceptable. So this is stuff that you couldn’t even do, you know. So I think for me, I was super impressed. So you cannot sit there with an entrepreneur that doesn’t but doesn’t use these tools as he will be obsolete because other will use it faster. So I think today, I mean, yeah, yeah, blockchain and people this time I think this is like I would say back, but they are, you have to learn and cope with it and because it’s, it’s amazing.

Jeffery: So I love it. Who is your hero or mentor and? Why?

Nicolas: Uh, I had one mentor, the guy that brought me in from the academia to the, to the information would, you know. And I had this epiphany suddenly that, you know, I was in the wrong business at the time, but I, I love it because this my DNA technology, etc.. That’s why I’m the president of intimate society. So it’s because, you know, it’s like previous robots, they can be there. So my life so so what I saw he was the dean of the San Jose University. He was a visionary. And I still considered him my my first and, you know, my mentor and I always go to him when I come up with a new product because he has a painting and finance as well. So, you know, I sit them with him and try to to to get the piece of his mind. So so yeah, so he’s been my mentor since, I think 1992.

Jeffery: Amazing. All right. We’re going to well, I’m I to ask one more question before we jump to the personal side. What is your favorite investment that you’ve made to date?

Nicolas: Uh, that’s a that’s a tough one. When you say February, the best is that it means I exited because I still don’t. I mean, we had a couple of exits in our funds, but I still exit the fund completely, so I wouldn’t. So I have I would say, you know, the best investments that the feel good investments is, you know, this type of that I told you about, you know, it’s you you go and visit and do a site visit and really put a lot of the story. And it’s really I always say the story it’s it’s the feel good thing about it. You know, it’s you see things, you witness things and you say and I told the team, you know, I don’t care if I don’t make it happen, You know, whatever it costs, make it happen. I’m going to invest in this. So so it’s this thing that and by the way, I still remember the entrepreneur when I met her, the first thing I made her cry the first 5 minutes because I did the questions and she literally cried and she stood up and was going to leave the room and I said, You don’t leave the room. And not done yet to sit down and we’re not finished. So and I ended up going and visiting the site and actually investing in her. So it’s these types of stories that I like to say, even if it was we sit around exhausted by the way, and sit doing good, etc. and we will exit. Fine. But I don’t care. It’s the doing good part that, you know, is is for me is suffice. You know, it’s not about just the money. So I’m meeting people and and making a difference in their lives. And despite the fact that you give them, it’s it’s they come back and they bounce and you know, they see the value.

Jeffery: I love it. All right. We’re almost there. Personal questions. Most famous person that pops in your bio.

Nicolas: Today, I mean, you know, these great guys, the Steve Jobs that I must you know, I always use videos in my class of Steve Jobs. You know, I’m it’s crazy. You know, how he pitches the marketing, you know so well I still use videos from it but it’s Steve Jobs is a legend.

Jeffery: First brand that pops in your mind.

Nicolas: Brand. I mean, I have Apple all over me. No, I have the MacBook, the iPhone, you know, so we have this thing in the family with with this Apple brand, you know.

Jeffery: So book or movie, it depends.

Nicolas: Movie, movie. I would say movie.

Jeffery: Superman or Batman.

Nicolas: Superman.

Jeffery: Fortune cookie or birthday cake.

Nicolas: Birthday cake.

Jeffery: 5 minutes with Bezos or Oprah.

Nicolas: 5 minutes with Bezos.

Jeffery: Bezos or Oprah, five basis Mountain or Beach.

Nicolas: Oh, come on, let So I mean, both. But Beach, obviously, you know for the people that you know.

Jeffery: Totally totally bike or run.

Nicolas: Bike.

Jeffery: Big Mac or Chicken McNuggets.

Nicolas: Neither done but I would say so for.

Jeffery: Trophy or money.

Nicolas: Throws it trophy.

Jeffery: Beer or wine.

Nicolas: White stuff I mean it’s a hard question Come on what about. Yeah.

Jeffery: They’re meant to be hard and quick, but I guess it’s all kind of because I’ll vote every situation.

Nicolas: I need to be consistent because, I mean, a beer at the beach and when at the mountain, you know, but because I should say beer. But I mean. Well.

Jeffery: I love it. I love it. Ted Talker, book reading.

Nicolas: No book reading.

Jeffery: Tik Tok or Instagram.

Nicolas: Instagram. I’m not on Instagram.

Jeffery: Facebook or LinkedIn.

Nicolas: LinkedIn.

Jeffery: Favorite Book.

Nicolas: Book, uh, for our week.

Jeffery: Oh, it’s good book yet. Favorite sports team.

Nicolas: Uh, team. I mean, I’m not into team. Uh, I mean, football, soccer. It used to be the German team when I was a kid, but I’m not into like, I like to watch tennis, you know, these types of individual type of games. Sure.

Jeffery: Yeah. Favorite movie. And which character would you play in the movie?

Nicolas: Favorite movie? Listen, I just mentioned Eurocentric woman from my. But, you know, which is a I mean that’s it’s just it’s it’s movie but there are lots of other movies, you know but I remember this movie well because, you know, at the time we don’t have phones it’s either. So I used to go, you have Netflix or you can offer you watch a movie. So I used to go and watch it several times and take notes, you know, you know, when he when he talks about women and generally discouragement. So it’s still attached to touch that forward society is another touching movie you know from Robin Williams that it’s open video. So again I watch it like two or three times and I actually took notes. You know, when he talks about language and it’s that woo woman, you know, and the like. So, you know so well which character I would play. I wish I could have an actor. Uh, you put me on the spot here. Yeah, I think because going back to my teacher’s route, uh, it’s, it’s the. I mean, that was Robin Williams, You know, this in conveying measure because I like to, to, to teach, you know, I’ve been doing that for the past 30 years. I love it. And by the way, when you finish the questions, I will I will give you something more personal. So I’m waiting love at the end of the question.

Jeffery: We’re almost there. What’s the meaning of success to you?

Nicolas: Uh, you know, it’s it’s said. I mean, do you succeed in your life or do you succeed your life know? Did you succeed in life? So it’s more about it’s it’s I think it’s it’s having a successful life. You know, it’s being content and not having anything to prove. You know, it’s it’s being humble, not having anything to do. You know, it’s but it’s just what it is today for me to have anything to prove. I never had anything to lose. So this is for me, it’s it’s being humble. And you do your thing.

Jeffery: And what is your superpower?

Nicolas: Uh, it’s. I think I don’t have a superpower, but I think it’s about, you know, maybe maybe sharing my passion, you know, and trying to, you know, every day, every day I sit down with the team and try to teach something, you know, either a movie that I saw or, you know, a joke or, you know, because there’s like a generation gap between me and them that, I mean, the second youngest in my team difference is 12 years. So it’s like have a generation. So I always every day when I sit with them and maybe have lunch, sometimes I get to to, you know, try to tell them something new that I’m sure they don’t know because, you know, there’s this gap. So it’s it’s about this.

Jeffery: I love it. Well, I also add in that I think your superpower is also bringing people and innovation and people and innovation ideas together. So I think you’re you’re very good at taking people together, getting them to think forward. So you’re building a really amazing base of minds that are helping build other countries. So I think there’s a lot of good things, and I’m sure your teaching background really helps bring that all together. So I’m going to say that we’re we’re at the end of our segment and we’re at the end of our talk. I want to thank you, Nicholas, for joining us, because it’s been phenomenal discussion where we like to finish our show as we like to give you the last word. So anything that you want to share to the investor community, to the startup community, I turn it over to you to share that. Please also share how people can get in contact with you. But again, thank you very much for all your time. It was fantastic to get to learn more about your background and all of the things that you’re building through.

Nicolas: Yeah, thank you for having me. JP So I mean, I’m on LinkedIn and Rihanna and I have eight, so I mean, you can reach me with the same handle on Twitter and, Instagram and LinkedIn, even Facebook. So, so what I hope this is to, to, to reach out. And the last thing I mean it’s it’s we’re here to stay. I mean, if I’m talking to my fellow Lebanese startups or investors, we have to say. And so any comment and and for the foreign I mean investors are looking for opportunities. As I said, we have this today, the solar opportunity that we have in Lebanon. We there’s a huge demand for to install solar and there is no access to finance. So this is low hanging fruit for investment and financing in this sector. That is low risk, as I explained in the very beginning.

Jeffery: But I love it. Thank you very much again for your time today.

Nicolas: Thanks. Thank you, Jeff, and hope to see you soon. Good luck.

Jeffery: Well, it’s pretty it’s pretty incredible what Nicholas has gone through. Just being in a country that has so many happening, different valuations and currency and how they’ve had to not only manage themselves, but manage the companies that they invest in and work with. And kudos for all of that. And I love some of the points you made, specially on keeping it cool and being able to have that mindset that’s able to balance all of these changes that are going on. And he was sharing with me earlier that there are a bunch of different things that he does. He’s a DJ, he’s picked up bread making. There’s a lot of things that he’s done to also balance the different types of engagements that he has to kind of keep diversifying, growing, learning and teaching himself while being able to participate in network and help the economy and the companies that are in that economy get to a better spot. So fantastic and really, really an amazing conversation and a big fan of, of course, everything that Nicholas has been able to build and do over time. So pretty amazing. So thank you, everyone, for joining us today. If you’ve enjoyed this conversation, please feel free to share with your friends. Subscribe to our YouTube channel and or please follow us on Spotify. Apple and or Stitcher. Feel free to share an audio clip around our show with me included in one of our future podcasts. You can find or follow us at Marketing at Open People Network or on LinkedIn at Supporters Fund. Your support comments are truly appreciated. Please visit us at Supporters Fund or Startup events at Open People Network dot com. Thank you and have a fantastic day.