Jeffery: Welcome to Impact Investing, brought to you by the Supporters Fund. From the birthplace of Mother Teresa in Tirana, Albania. I’m your host, Jeffrey JP Potvin. And let’s please welcome from the oldest underground railroad network, London, UK. Max. So please, at Equity Match Investments and advisory. Welcome, Max. A real pleasure having you join us today.

Massimiliano: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Jeffery: Very excited. Max. We’ve done a lot of shows and events over the years together. I’ve got to learn a lot about you, the network you’ve been building, and it’s pretty awesome because you get such a collective group of early stage founders building some great companies. It’s been a real pleasure being part of that network that you’ve built. And today we get the opportunity to deep dive more into your background and all the great things that you’re doing. So in order to jump start our show, the way we like to do it is we’d love to hear all the way back from your MBA in Milan to where you are today, and maybe while you’re giving us that journey or sharing that with us, you can share one thing about you that nobody would know.

Massimiliano: I mean, it’s been a long journey until I just turned 51. So it’s been a while doing stuff, and I just started, as you said, I, I mean, I completed my MBA pretty late during my journey because I decided to start working before a me while working doing my MBA. This is why. Because I don’t believe that much in MBA. Have to be honest, and many times it’s a lot. It just, you know, is just hairy, but you practically don’t know anything. So when I started, my first company was more than 20 years ago. I said, you know what? Now that I’m actually working, I can do my MBA so I can see I can apply straight. what I’m learning actually, in doing something real, in not just studying. And so I spend most of my time in corporate finance, M&A, and, merchant banking. This is where I spend almost 20 years, not 20 years, but until 2014, full time. So I have my match on bank in Italy to, brokerage one insurance. One is finance as well in Italy, Milan and a day from 30 to 40 had to say it’s been an extremely great journey, but I was pretty on it, holding three companies in one go because I opened the first one and after 12 months the second, and after 12 months it turned because I saw the opportunity. But then I didn’t see it was my myself to not be very much experienced, to run three companies, a solo fund that in one go. So I I’ve been through the impossible. I, I’ve been living days without even sleeping one more minute because it was just too much for me. Very much a whirlwind. But yeah, the journey has been very exciting, very tough. But I learned so much. This is why today, I left completely the M&A. I’m not doing divisor anymore. As you know, I launched Equity Match two years ago. You came as my investor guest more than once. And I’m very appreciate your time spending with us. So I’m fully dedicating myself today to, fund this teaching them I mean, teach is not right. Is giving them experience, giving them all the pretty big network I had before equity match. And now, of course, I’ll be ten times bigger, if not even more, and try to dive in. What means, not only venture capital serve you will and invest. You know perfectly the world. And not all startups can afford the venture capitalist. So tell them that. Be a fund. It doesn’t mean you need to go hundred percent of venture capital. Of course, if you can, if you have the tools, go because much faster how to grow. But if you can’t, just try to bootstrap yourself and do as best as you can with your ability and your cash return. a lot depends who you are. this is what I do daily. Now, I had to be honest. I mean, I was so bored by and by multiple videos every day. free cash flow and so on and so, say, let me do something more exciting. Let me start working with fund. That’s, since two years now, 100% on equity match, hundred percent on founders. And I also, as I will share with you last time, I will next year to open my VC is going to be named MVC. We only invest in preceding seed. pretty much first check it’s probably do as well, as I do believe the number of venture capital is compared to the number accelerate where they are compared to the number of startups on the planet. extremely small. So. And probably the the other, maybe it would be one for a 1000 fund that each. investors probably, if not even more so. the gap is massive. So, and I’m trying to do something myself as well to fill this gap. as much as I can, regarding the regarding myself, the question was something that nobody knows about me and I would have to share. I mean. I’ve been talking a lot. So people, they know enough about me already, and maybe they even have enough.

Jeffery: But.

Massimiliano: I’m very I’m very persistent. This is what I had to say. I really, I, I had the pleasure to live with my grandmom. for a while, she was like a robot. Pure robot with three jobs per day. I was shocked, okay, you did this. She was paid two times. The others because she was delivering so much. And she always told me. Never give up marks, never up to the end. Which means you will only live up when you die. Until then, try it. This is what I do every day. So, I did have a very easy life. I had to be honest, I. I started totally from scratch, completely from 0000. And but I haven’t been always successful. So there are days where they are terrible. even today, the days where nothing works and you just get upset all the time. But what I really like to do, and what I understood on my side is if this day so black just lived it, that girl may just go for a walk. I mean this nothing can happen. And come back tomorrow with a fresh mind. This is what I do every day now, when not every day I. What was a bit will be a bad day. Every day when my bad day comes. Because it comes sometimes and just walk away. Have a nice day. We talking to friends, having some short, fresh, go to workout, I did that, everything works much better. It is same problem that today seems huge. Tomorrow would be much easier. this is. I apply to everything I do now. so. Yes, I mean, extremely persistent, extremely extreme. And I said to my partner, always say, me why you treat your life so badly, why you work so much, and mine, which is upset so much. My answer is to the end. We we I need to make things work. He does work. is not going to happen.

Jeffery: Well, I love that drive, Max. And, I think your your your grandmother was on to something where, you know, never give up, fill the gap, work hard all the way until the end. I think it’s that it it’s a very old school mentality is that, stay busy and, you know, the people that really kept themselves busy like that, they were always making things happen. They never had time to worry about, mental health issues, problems that were falling apart because they were the stepping stone for everybody around them. They all went to them for help and guidance and learning. They had a very strong minds and convictions, and they probably be very religious. There’s a lot of things that kind of fit into that spectrum together. So it’s pretty incredible the the learning that you gain from that. But before we unpack kind of the history side, you know, I think we have to take note that one of the things you said is that even when you had a bad day, you still stopped, realize it’s going to be better tomorrow. Went for a walk. Clear your mind. Went to the workout, go meet friends. You did all of the things that allowed you to kind of clear that off the table and go take a new step the next day. And I think a lot of people forget that. They tend to internalize, beat themselves up, and maybe they don’t look at the brighter side of it. They don’t look at the positive. And, and I think, there’s some good learning there that people have to look at tomorrow as a better day, but you can start planning it today. I had a rough morning, had a rough day, go for a walk, go meet some friends. And that’s what’s going to allow you to have that better day tomorrow. Clear mind. Open things up again.

Massimiliano: I was not that in that way. I mean, before for me was no way I’m not going to. And then go to stuff and find a solution. But the solution was never coming. And maybe it came the day after. After sleeping, I say, what am I doing? I’m just wasting time today is not going to happen today, so let’s move on. But you know, you need to find some kind of convention to understand that you must move on right before it was okay. I move on means I don’t give up. Actually, you know, I’m just taking a breath. I’m understanding. I’m just giving some oxygen to my brain. And so tomorrow will be better. And many, many, many times tomorrow is very much better.

Jeffery: It really does. It takes time. I think it’s that decompression side. But also talking about it, you probably share something with your friends or family along that path, and that’s what allows you to kind of find that solution. And it allows you to take the time to open up. And I think if I go back to when you originally sharing about the five companies that you’ve built, but more predominantly the three that you started with at one time? I think this is kind of, for me, this is the pinnacle point to what makes an entrepreneur. And when you were saying that even yourself, you couldn’t handle managing three companies, I would completely agree with you that three companies is, extreme. if you were calling it extreme business, you were doing it. And I find that people that do it later on, they’ve built a template so it becomes a lot cookie cutter. They have strong teams that they can build in to make this happen. But as you mentioned, you’re a solopreneur. So if you go back to those three companies that you started, I’m going to make a big assumption and I won’t even share it until after you share this. But while you were doing that, were there some learnings that you wouldn’t do today? You said you cleaned your plate. You you focused 100% on equity match to do that business 100%. That’s your your passion, your drive. But you learned from all these other companies and these other things that you did. So is there say 2 or 3 things that you would say to a founder because, I guess the best analogy for me is that when I, share what a founders brain is, when they first start their first company, they’re like walking into a football stadium. You’ve got 100,000 seats, I don’t know, 100 doors. And that’s the brain of an entrepreneur. They just look at this and they’re like, wow, there’s so much room here. I can do so many things, so many seats to sit in, so many doors to go into. And then when you go and you speak to a corporate person, it’s like walking into a small bedroom and you’re like, wait a second, how is this work? Why do you not have the creativity in all of this space? Because the corporate person, their goal was to drive themselves into being super efficient in this small box and to be the best. Yeah. And as an entrepreneur, your goal is so big that you want to do everything and you realize you can’t do everything, and that your goal is to get into that room. So as an entrepreneur, you want to push people to get into the room. The business person’s already in the room, so you want to be able to focus to get to that quality of output. So now you’re starting off and you’ve got three companies that you’re building. You’re in this big space. You could probably build 12 more because you’ve got so much room and you think you have so much room. So what would you change today versus then? What are the learnings that you’ve really taken to empower yourself that is empowering now the future startup entrepreneurs to be better and to not go after every single open door.

Massimiliano: You know, that’s been my mistake. You’re right. I mean, I’m a I’m independent, but if it is, I would like to feel any room. And he said anything comes in front of the when I started the first one and I just opened an enormous advisory company. Right. which was extremely successful because was me and my secretary, and we made 1 million in euros when we started the first year. Hey, we were 64th, the 70%. The beta was extremely, I had the property to pay tax. You need to. It’s super expensive. So. And I said to me, well, we made 1 million to people, so I can I can make the million if I’m going to, if I’m going to high. And but also I was okay with the insurance money. So much to do in financial. And so I opened my second, I tuned the advisory company brokerage pure brokerage insurance for a Milan, and after I say over it was doing very, very well. I say well, but in this part which is was in interception which we I’m going to go to details now between finance insurance. That is so much to do as well. So I went to the notary, I opened up the company, I hired people that I say let me because before I was doing this part with others, I’d say, why? Why share it with others I’m going to do with myself. So I opened another one and I was talking to a friend of mine, and I said to him, do you know what? Actually I’m a broker, right? So I’m selling third parties, instruments. I’m going to create my instruments. So I went, I went to I went straight to the, to a friend of mine say, can you find a financial solution for me? I want to buy and say, why are you crazy? You know what? I need to company. How can anybody find it? So you found. I bought it immediately. So. But after a month, they were like, well, that’s too much. No. So. But it was full of ego food. Absolutely food. And I was not even 40, running three companies plus an and holding company because I paid to hold the structure on top of it because I already thinking to expand to everyone and, and I say, okay, no, I need a big office because this office too small. I want to bring all the companies in one go in one office. So I went to Vienna, which is most beautiful. if you been in Milan and get done, that is what is the intersection between Castelo Francisco and Duomo. Even on the most beautiful by far in Milan. So I went there. I started looking offices. It was written outside, for renting or say. So I went to the guys say, I want to see this office. Is it to me? How big is it? It’s it’s pretty massive. Had I was there before, it was that little mess it admits in in Italy. So. Okay. Let me see. So I walk into the office. Jeffrey was at pure disaster was horrible. Inside. The furniture was absolute. The nightmare was terrible. That is black. Green. I said to the guy who made the look is terrible. Everything must be redone. But it was one door on the right side was this door said the door is closed because of is too big. It gives access to the half. The other half of the office. Okay, can I walk in? So we walk into another one. I say, okay, can you give me the plan? So I took the plan, went to the went home. I talked to him about that and say, oh, this is a massive office, this beautiful. So I call my friend, say, can you come tomorrow? So he could. He was refurbishing office attached to him. This is 500 square meter. It’s pretty massive. So it’s beautiful if we do this, this and this. I told you. How much do you want to do everything from scratch? They told me, Max, 60, 70,000. We can do it. All right. So when did they offered? After to the guy is said, you know what? You too expensive for me? I mean, I have no one behind me. Just me. I can give you any guarantee. Zero. So if you believe my words, are we taking the office or we cut off? Your rent is too much. I will refurbish everything and office yours. When I’m leaving the guy, watch me say, I cannot believe you. I mean, you are just a guy coming here. What came from nobody. I had no reference. I had nothing about you, I. Where do you come from? I come from this very small, good town in Abruzzo. Okay. he called me today after I told him. Okay, 24 hours. Let me know. Yes or no, because I need to move 12 to 24. I was coming, he said, you know what? You have to bribe. That’s your office for the next five years. Please don’t destroy it. We did an absolutely office. So beautiful. I was pleased to work in every day. Flowers, plants everywhere. it was it was very nice, but, day to night, I was sitting at 2:00. Is back then was this smoking? Sometimes I was sitting at a clock opening the window, this beautiful view in front of me. Duomo of Milan, say, well, that’s nice. What that done, I’m going to pay all this rent now.

Jeffery: It’s a lot of money.

Massimiliano: But everything is beautiful. So what I what I mean is I did everything six months to to come. But he wasn’t only doing it one of his completely done from scratch. But I did realize it was I was too much excited. I was feeling everything was coming to my brain after I had to stop because I understood it was just too much. And then I did it. My biggest mistake taking the from people around me. So I believed because I was young, I say I need and everyone was telling me, Max, you need them and you need otherwise you are doing too much. I convinced myself maybe I needed someone helping me, but which is make sense? But you need to find the right person.
This is something that I would like to tell all founders. Yes. Make this a good advice. Are good as long as they are right. If they are wrong, you are that. And they literally almost stole in my companies almost because I was young, they were much older than me. They didn’t believe that we they experienced that. We took two completely over me. So I had to remove everyone. They started from scratch again. So it was a pretty tough time. I learned a lot what I could never do again is three companies together is too much a lot. It just is not possible to a lot of regulation. It was fully in a regulated industry, which is merchant banking, pure banking, licensing. Was it tough, tough, tough call for me. And when I decided in 2014, I had to be honest, yes, I decided to sell everything in one go because I was moving to London. Also because I was overwhelmed. I was absolutely not sleeping and nine was too much for me. So in 2020, 2014, I said, you know what? I done? I got a lot experience. Let’s move to London. let’s restart from scratch again. And in London I absolutely start from scratch again. Same, except some money you have because you have been selling something.

Jeffery: Well, that’s a great story. And there’s a lot there that we can we can dive into. And it sounds like when you started off, you were doing all the right things, that somebody as a young entrepreneur has a lot of energy and they believe they can do everything. And as you started to unfold the everything, you were building this perfect, picturesque world, which was the beautiful view, the great place to work. You mentioned that you forgot the had to pay all this rent, so you started to realize that this cost was going to be significant and that that probably put a damper on the excitement after you started to have to pay those bills every month. so when you started to go through this process and build these companies up, you almost and start to find all of your time is chasing the dollar, chasing the wind, chasing everything because you had to pay these other bills back, which you didn’t have before. So you were making great money, 70%, on your dollar to now having to reduce that down because you were chasing the fix to make sure that the dollars came in. And then there was the second thing you mentioned, which was the wrong people that came in the company. And, you know, I can say that in my time, I didn’t go I never built an office. But what I did do was the same thing. I, I felt that, I could build businesses like a venture studio, and I could tie in people to run those companies. And what I found was that being a young entrepreneur at the time was that there was the person, the people thing, to your point, was that it always tended to be the wrong people, even though you thought that they were the right people, they became the wrong people over time, because you needed someone that was an entrepreneur, that knew how to hustle, that knew how to do the things, to survive and build a company. Not somebody that just wanted to get paid to sit and run and operate a business. And there becomes an indifference because you think skill sets are always going to be expandable and they’re going to grow. So when you mentioned the the tough part of the wrong people, what were the things that you can say today made? What would make for the right people? What are the types of people you need to look for? They can run and support and build a company so that in the future, if you were to run 2 or 3 companies in a venture studio style that you know, you could deliver a bottom line and get where you needed to be.

Massimiliano: But I like to say I am a big believer of attitude. This is coming to everyone. So yes, of course, if you need a man, there must be skilled, otherwise there is no way they can mentor you or advise you. But what I’m looking, is not that much the skills when the people behind it. What which kind of person are you? Are you someone who really wants to help me? Or are you someone actually want to take advantage from me or advantage from a business that’s a different story. You can be skilled as much as you can, but if your intention is not actually good, you can damage me. You can then Jimmy it as it is. This is why today I’m pretty good in selecting people. We’ve been selected 30 people equity match in 24 months. And the team is astonishing, is extremely powerful and very, very committed. But today’s different because I can’t stand people talking to me in the 80s when I was young, not even one hour because I was blind, I was blind behind the curriculum. Right? So I took guys coming from huge company, coming from Mediaset, calling me back them in Milan, coming from very massive, massive company people working with billions and billions every day with a huge, huge background. And for me, this was my insurance, right? This guy been working with this guy, this guy, this guy had done this and is extremely skilled. You can help me. But the point is it was they were very good too, particularly. But actually they try to take advantage of it for me. They saw me very young. They saw me. That experience I was they, they told, okay, I we can take away everything from us pretty soon. And this is what was happening. My, I was, lucky enough to have a very, reliable a very, committed to me, to the company, the team. They know me. So they came to me and say, we have a problem here. We need to remove these guys because they want to remove you. So. Wow, I see this say yes. Say do it. My employee, come to me and say, Max, we need to remove them because they want to remove. You said, well, I to remove it. Well it was very it’s like he was like, I need a meeting like theater. I say, you guys, it’s like Otello. So you are, you are, you are. You must go. Because I can see nobody wants to be anymore. you know perfectly well why. But back to your question. I, I do believe you must look at people from who they are in the first place. I mean, I’m I’m thinking about ethics, attitude before them, skills because smart people sometimes get even more danger than stupid people because they know how to play the game. maybe if someone is not this month who doesn’t know how to play the game. So you need to be careful today. For me, it’s all about ethics and attitude. And of course, after skills come. Yeah.

Jeffery: Again, that’s that’s huge. I think a lot of founders don’t tend to look at these pieces at the beginning, because they’re running really quickly. They don’t slow down enough to breathe and understand their environment, understand the people. And you really hone in on it that the people you’re hiring, hiring are heavily competitive, and they’re heavily competitive in your business. And like you said, they took they want to take you out of your own business. And that’s common. But I think there’s this misunderstanding that everybody just aligns to your vision. And they want in and they want to support you. But a lot of the time you don’t realize is that they’re competitive amongst themselves through competitive in the environment, the network everywhere across. So you’re always trying to make sure that you drive the business forward. So would be some of these takeaways that you think would be able to rope people in better. Is it setting KPIs for the overall members of the team? Is it setting a strategy that everybody aligns to and when they start to fall out of it, you make changes right away. Are there are things that create red flags for founders so that they no earlier on than later, because later is when it’s wrong. That’s when your your business starts taking every shot it can handle. Is there something that you could say, here’s three things founders look out for. This is happening inside your business because it happens in every business. Pay attention, support your people, but do it in this fashion and you’ll avoid pitfalls.

Massimiliano: I will say one in particular. For example, how to tip to work for me an equity match. They are all far away from me. Far away means far away. I talk about people in Asia, equity matches at court in UK. Now we are open in the UK as well, so in Europe as well. But doesn’t mean I spend all my time with them. I travel a lot so I need people that really stick to the rules. So for example, if some of them happen twice, I find them the day after. If some of them come to me talking bad about another one east end of head with that one, I just find that that’s wrong. So if you’re a if your colleague is having a problem, you must help them. Help her. So in this case, you help me the company, if you come to me telling me, do you know what this guy is doing, this and this and this doing nothing to help me actually try to take him out or her out there, regardless if they’re good or not. That’s not the behavior I like. So quite helpful. I find them immediately and to all the team I always tell them what matters me is the team, not each of you. Of course. You monitor me as a person. Absolutely. as a part of the team. A part of the company. Absolutely. But if you play the team game, it’s okay. If you play your game, you’re out. Period. I don’t care, you can even be Steve Jobs. I do not mind. I don’t believe in solo player. So for me, it’s absolutely a analogy. Ronaldo, which is probably the best player ever in football without another ten, can do anything. So I don’t believe in, one solo great, person. I believe in 1040, 5000 good person, good people who work it. The second is you must see the attitude. You must drive down what actually your company needs in terms of attitude from the people. Work we do. I don’t like to say for you, because I do many work all together for one goal. We achieve both together and. But you must have red flags everywhere when it comes to behavior. Attitude. I’m. I really believe in many understanding. No. You must consider people by attitude and behavior. And the skills can be learned by anyone except, something that is not even digital, but, skills can be learned. Attitude and behavior not so culture for me. It’s everything in a team after comes to rest. But you must trace the, the rules of behavior, attitude and culture on your business. Everyone is different, so I can, I can, I can give any but on them. Understand how your team are doing. there are beautiful companies where people work very happily. You must have in your people every day coming to the office or. Or going to work very happily. So they enjoy what they’re doing. But it comes from the top. I do believe in education. Behave. Your attitude comes from the top. If you write down your rules, everyone you in the first place follow the rule. The team will go up. If you think that is smart. People can do whatever they want without rules, you’re going to be very wrong. Very, very wrong.

Jeffery: No, this is great. And, I’ll kind of paraphrase it, but it sounds like it’s top down. The executives or the CEO of the company shows the attitude, shows the behavior, shows the direction, and everybody under them kind of support that direction. And it goes all the way through all tiers of the business. And you work as a team, you build as a team, you grow as a team. Individuals, they’re there, but they’re not. They’re masked by the team. And if the individual stands out and causes chaos, then that person is not going to survive very long. But it comes from the CEO and how they’re driving the business, which means you have strategies, you have goals, you have directions, and it’s how well the team aligns to those directions.

Massimiliano: Great. You know, do you know it’s competition is good. It’s crucial. But even competition must have rules. It’s like war is not good at all. It’s very bad. Still must have some kind of rules inside. And that’s what it is. It’s a wide competition. It’s going to be a disaster. I’m a big fan of, for example, Elon Musk in terms of capacity. I’m not a big fan of him at all in terms of behavior. And I do believe this way to rule things. It just broke in the first place. But so because everyone knows Elon Musk is pretty much these and this is understandable, what I’m talking about, I think we have you Mattis allowed us to do the math is a lot. You must be honest. You must be. You must always respect others. It is what I say to everyone. I do not open a sentence every day on message. Do anything with please. there is no way I do not close with text I detest boss, I only love leaders that said this. My road.

Jeffery: I love that I only love leaders. No. That’s great. And you know, I think it all kind of exemplifies the fact that you take this learnings from your previous where you were, doing too much and not being able to see and build the way you wanted to. You restructure and now you find a way to make this work and to your employees side, I’m going to paraphrase, but it’s don’t come to me with problems. Come to me with solutions. Come when you come to me with solutions. That shows me your being a leader. And it doesn’t matter which level of business you come in at. If you’re coming from the mailroom to a designer to an architect or whatever that position is, come with solutions. We’ll work together to get this where it needs to go, and we’ll put the team together to make sure that it happens. And I think that direction that you’re all going that puts you all on the same train, puts you all on the same team and allows you to kind of move forward. So it’s it’s a pretty exciting way to look at your business, which kind of shapes my next question, which is you started off by saying that you did your MBA later in, in time and that you had a lot of learning through that. And I know an MBA deals a lot with organizational and business acumen, how things operate. Would you say that taking the MBA is guided and helped you in this restructuring of how you’ve looked at your organizations today, that it’s aided, maybe not redid it all, but it helped you organize your own thoughts. So would you say that your MBA was better taken when you did it than if you would have taken it right out of school, like everybody else at BA in an MBA at that time.

Massimiliano: Yes, I think had been blessed doing after I let you why? there are is not the case probably I think the majority of funders, the very big one, we succeeded. Nobody of them has an MBA. and I do believe MBA is the problem with this, executive, course, this as you, as you want to call them, or the same. It absolutely are all the same wherever you go from the high school, from the lower, Harvard, wherever they’re almost all the same can same time change of the teachers. But of course, the knowledge is different. The. Well, the teach is different. This right by the structure. Is that so? If you do this, a London business school and Harvard or any other, lowest good, you still have the same frame because you have the same frame, you start thinking the same way. So you lose what I love to say, the art, the angle of the to interpret. It must be free artists. You can try whatever they want. If they are stopped because they teach in the NBA. I told you that this cannot work. You stop maybe the biggest opportunity in your life. This is why I. I define independence as absolutely the artist of business. And that’s exactly the opposite of seal managers sea level structure. As I said before, inside the frame, they only know one thing very, very well. And they like to be there on this seat in that room I don’t like to be. Only was it I like to be in three or 4 or 5 succeeds in. I like to be in as many rooms as I can now with more discipline. That was before the say that. Yes, it helped me to restructure the company this through, but I I’m a pretty fragmented inside. So when I, when I start, when I finish my school, high school in Italy, I had to decide where to go because I was so good in designing. My teacher told me I must go and do architecture because you are so talented. So all right, I went to architect. I see I did 24 months, six exams in Italy. University long is six, five, six years. Something unbelievable. And after I came back, I say to my wife, I don’t like this. I mean, it’s okay, it’s nice. I design every day, but it’s not for me. I just don’t for anything else. She’s telling me what I want to do now, so I had no idea. I’m actually I’m very lost. So. And a friend of mine, I was training 3 or 4 hours a day. A friend of mine told me marks, I’m going to Bologna, where you just told me you got your plane. because I want to do engineering, so I’m coming. I was reading that if there was an exam for education, physical education. So I went. There was nothing to do that. So I went there without preparing myself. And if I tip. So I say to my mum, do you know what? I just came here, I did an exam I didn’t want, I was not even prepared. I was ranking, did they call me if I want to go to university? Bologna is a nice place. I’m going. She told me it was through the kind of job it is. I mean, are you going to teach education, physical education? I said, I don’t think so, but anyway, I’m going. So I did the one in the world. Not for me was wait three years. Lost all my life, a lot of my life. But anyway. But my dream was acting. So I got, I got, I went to Rome and actually I got upset by the academy there. So I start acting, then I finish everything. I started 20, 30. I enjoy so much acting, theater. And this is where my side is very much so. So this is why I like to to interpret anything in life. be pretty much, cool. But at 30 I say, well, I’m enjoying, but I don’t have no money at all. I mean, I’m pretty much poor. I need to go to work at night. I was working at clubs to pay my rent, and I say, you know what? Let’s start doing something. This is when I move to Milan and start my first company and the second to the MBA. I did probably what someone does in 25 years. I enjoyed a lot. so back to the master. The executive? Yes. You had me to frame it, to restructure everything. Correct. But I always got my free way. I’m still using my free way. I like to think outside the box. And I like the rules because must be there. But you must not. You must not be constrained by rules. Right. So I don’t believe business is guided only by rules. And I do believe the greatest I’m. They’ll say I’m the greatest. Absolutely not. I think the people who really stand out are the one who designed the next rules. Steve Jobs, gates, we we that are endless. Elon Musk, they are rewriting the rules. That’s the point.

Jeffery: I like that where you’re creating new rules, or you’re breaking the paradigm shift and saying that an entrepreneur has that ability. But I think the key to what you shared about when you took your MBA is that you gained a lot of learning from that, that it helped you maybe facilitate more box thinking, which allowed for you to compartmentalize the way the business was operating, not for you, but for your teams, which put structure to it, which allows for that structure of the business to move forward. It creates guidelines. You said rules, but I’ll say more guidelines, which then allowed you to operate and manage at a larger scale and grow at a larger scale because you created the ability for, as you call the rules, but more guidelines that allowed for everybody to stay within the guidelines of the model, but allowed you to build this quicker and more rapid scale, which means that you could scale these businesses a lot more efficiently because you take the learnings from your MBA and all the previous experiences, figure out what the guidelines are for you to operate and manage a business. Allow you to be in many seats, allow you to be in many doors, open many doors which allows your team to be refined and in guidelines, which allows them to go outside and inside but stay in the purview of the guidelines and they can expand the business. Well, you can go out and build the things you need to in order to keep scaling the business. And I love the line. It’s, entrepreneurs or free artists of business like that. Free art aside, it’s huge because it makes you think that as an entrepreneur, if I can get the model correct, that supports the way I function, then I have the ability to grow up and down in my business while my team feels secure inside the business, inside the guidelines that allow it to work forward, and then you can move your business in the direction you need to, and that can scale up and down based off economies of scale. But the artist in you allows you to continue to grow and expand your mindset on how to break things and make things better in that environment. And I think that’s phenomenal because all of your experiences come down to you learning that. And I think that that is the exceptional way for an entrepreneur today to think about their business, that they’re going to start off young, they’re going to start off and screw up. They’re going to make things hard. They’re not going to understand it. But as they expand, they kind of want to get to where you are, which is exactly that point of being the artist and making everything work within the guidelines that you’ve created to grow and scale a business.

Massimiliano: That’s correct. Me. When you scale a business, you need guidelines. So the NBA is very good. Not that much at the very beginning because there is not as much to do. but except creating something from scratch. And when you grow, yes, you need the guidance. You need you need you need this structure. you need to be both an interpreter, but a very good executive and wise. You go, you can go very much.

Jeffery: And I love that. And you set the example. And I think when you set those examples, it also allows for that individual inside of your business to also know that there is one day they can also expand their way to be an artist, and they know that they can do that because they’re seeing and they’re learning from the example, which is yourself. So I think that’s awesome. I think that’s very creative. And it’s a great way for you to stay creative.

Massimiliano: freedom. I to be honest, I, I get them so much freedom. But in in the guidance, I tell them, don’t be shy. Bring me whatever you have in mind I don’t like. I’m not going to tell you I will. Never done in my life. I would never do that. I can just tell you it’s not for me. It’s not for this company. Maybe it will be for the next one. But the more you tell me, the more impressed with me, the better. So I give you that so much freedom. So much is pent up.

Jeffery: I love it. Well, we’re going to transition into our next, section. I would have love to dive more into also into the idea of and how you’ve raised a lot of money for your companies that you work with, but we’re going to do that in a follow up because, we do, want to kind of hit the guidelines on our timing, and we’ve got some other segments that are pretty exciting. So we’re going to move into our next segment. and we’ll jump onto that one, in another conversation. But so the next segment, the way this works is it’s called the 62nd rant. So you have 60s to rant about anything that drives you crazy. That’s going on in the world today. And it could be around venture entrepreneurship. It could be anything. I’m going to time it. And at the 5055 second mark, I will put my hand up. I will say that no one’s ever been able to stay under the 60s, so we’ll try to keep it as tight as we can. But I want you to be able to get out your your thought, of course, on your rant, and then I’ll jump in and try and rebuttal if I even can. But we’ll, we’ll try our best. So when you’re ready, you let me know. I’m going to throw the timer. Well, you don’t get to see the timer, but I’m going to throw the timer up and we’re, ready to go when you’re ready.

Massimiliano: You can go.

Jeffery: All right. Fire away.

Massimiliano: I mean, it’s about it’s about, you know, I mean, in Europe. Yes. We have a we are growing as a venture ecosystem. Right? You have been in Europe many times. but the difference between Europe and US Institute and I would say Europe to China is still huge. So in Europe we have a bunch of politicians who maybe do understand anything about venture capital. So all the rules the, the, Inupiaq community are done for and do not help you fund this actually to get where they can be because we have so many great fund this. We have people very much educated, with so much knowledge, so much in different areas, skills, enough to have rules that play totally against them, the huge lack of funding. I am talking about private and public funding and this is where it is so annoying to me. This is why I want to create my VC next year. This is why I want to try to work with everyone around the globe, bringing a bit more entrepreneurial skills and risk in Europe. Like I said, like Americans, like people already understand what means. Invest in venture capital, which is not a bit. And also on the spirit equity maybe, but giving the fund there is the possibility to tell the story, give the fund the possibility to try if they fail, fail. And for three, they don’t like, where I live now is the culture of failure. I mean, if I fail, you must tell me. Thank you because I tried and not destroy me. Because maybe I can go to the bank for the next five years. Or this guy, because they fail. They are not capable. Actually, if someone failed, it, at least it is something a next time what we want or she want. So I’m very much annoyed from this. So many talks that I’m listening everywhere from any any event on going to and everyone to Europe is doing extremely well. I would like to say extremely well compared to what? Because it’s everywhere compared to Europe, where Uber was ten years ago. Maybe. Yes, but was nothing ten years ago. But if you compare Europe to USA, China, come on. We are we are absolutely nothing. We there is nothing we can be happy or and going to AI because we talk about AI every day. So in Europe AI is like a killer. If you talk to them, they are already trying to to put all the things together to stop it, because it is being perceived something bad instead of something that can happen. The world AI ten years ago, one meeting I told that, my dream is having a world full of robots that work for me. Humans. They told me I was crazy. Actually, I do believe we get. We get the robots. They do not it that don’t do anything. They don’t spend money. We can create action economy made by robots working for us. We can spend more time with our family and so on. Do you things that really matters a lot for the people. So this is what really annoys me. The approach to technology in Europe is step back, if at all. Stepping forward and including UK is what we are already talking about. How to stop AI is not even death, can you believe? So you want to stop something that you didn’t know exactly what it is, what it’s capable to do, and or what actually can do the good? What I cannot understand is why we should always see things in a bad way, and never see the good way. I actually can. You can take the good side or the AI, the good side technology and try to use this beautiful, tools that we do we have, which is means the tech as a, as an old, to engage the world to an end, to enhance the people, to the life. It not stopping everything for the sake of data protection. I had to be honest. I was talking to a fun day two weeks ago. Is someone has my name is pseudonym and what I do I just don’t care. I mean, I should, I care about data protection. When people share 2 billion people share on Facebook, what do they do every second of their life? This this just ridiculous. So this is what really annoys me. I would like to see a very powerful venture capital because I’m a big believer. Jeffrey. Only entrepreneurs can change the war. No politician, politician out there for doing nothing for his sake will be elected. Because you must be elected. You can’t do anything. Then please the people. Tell them some. I don’t want to say bad words. Something that they believe you will. Maybe I won’t do anything I did from the day after when you beat the reelected or elected independence, or the full power of society without without us, this world community. This the point. So this is what is my believing. This is what I truly believe. And, then I am very pissed off about what was going on in Europe. And you talk about nothing. So we should build something properly. Completely. We China compete with America. When I talk about compete, you know fighting compete in a good way. Maybe good relationship with that and not try to stop. Everyone is stopping Google coming to Europe because data protection stop. If they stop, everyone, they just they they they fight everyone. They fine. Everyone come here for this site to get some money for data protection. Europe is only about data protection. I’m still understanding what is data protection.

Jeffery: Well, I love it. It’s a fantastic argument. I think we broke the record for the longest argument, which is also awesome, and I’ve written so much here, so I’m going to pick away at this, but really briefly so that you can counter this. So I think we’re the middle ground is here that Europe is providing is the the U.S is a capitalistic market. They take chances because they want to make money. They don’t take chances because they want to save the earth and make things better. They take chances because that’s how money’s made is by making chances, high risk, high reward, big failures. So there’s a difference on how you manage failures. When you have high risk and you throw capital at anything for a gain. So capitalistic market versus a socialistic market, socialistic market is Europe China communist structured. So when you’re playing against a communist in a capitalistic market, from a socialistic standpoint, you can either drop the belt and go hard. And what I mean by that is that you can make sure that you’re fighting at all chances against this, or you see the outcome of where this can go and you become the middle ground, the plays in the middle safe spot. And what I’m finding is that Europe is playing the middle ground, which is the governance. The GDPR. And they’re playing the safe spot and they’re the regulators. So when you go to war, you ask the United States to come in and support you because they’ve built the arms and the capitalistic view of going in and taking care of the problem. You bring Europe in to manage the UN and to support it and balance out the outcome, because if not, you have chaos. So China, on the other hand, they sit in the background and do what they need to do. We already know how that’s going to operate. So I think what I’m looking at in war, the way I’m seeing this is that no matter how you structure it, Europe is the governance to the world of what’s going to happen. And if they didn’t put their foot down, the GDPR wouldn’t have created the structure that’s allowed the rest of the countries who don’t fit in Europe to balance out the negative outcomes that these businesses want, which is I’m going to make sure your kids are messed up because I make money from it. I’m going to do all of these things because I don’t care about you. I care about business. So I actually think that I’m countering your business because I don’t want Europe to be like the US, or to be a North American, free for all. I think that it brings balance, and it actually allows North America and the rest of the world to actually come up with a better structure of how they’re implementing things, because if they come out with even worse, then you’re going to be working for a robot in the next 20 years. And because it makes money for the people that want money, which is the capitalistic market. So what you’re saying isn’t wrong. You want to take the gloves off. But I think that if you take the gloves off and be like everybody else, then Europe is going to lose the value that it’s created over time, which is balancing and being the governance body like to support things. So it’s a small piece, but I think at the end of the day, it’s driving home that you’re still moving the line, you’re still getting there. It’s just taking you guys slower because of the governance. And to your earlier point, they created rules, and their rules of governance are a lot tighter than they need to be, and those seem to get worked up open a little bit more because they’ve got entrepreneurs like yourself that are opening them up. It just takes a lot longer. But I think the governance is there. Over to you, 60s what do you think? And then we’re going to move on to the next segment.

Massimiliano: I mean, you’re you’re right. But, this is a it’s okay, but you can’t stop until the partnership cannot be done by too many rules. That’s what I’m saying. So it’s a you’re right. I mean, we are in between. We are very much in between. Between us and China. So we play exactly where we are located. Geolocated. But doesn’t mean that you must stop you and definition a a a distant point. I mean, as I said before, rules. Okay. Guidance. Okay. They must be there. But if they constrain me to do nothing and I can’t compete in European startup, there is no way they will never compete with the Chinese, the Americans, because there is huge difference in, there is huge different rules. That’s why Europeans go to America to skate. We still have that up probably. I don’t want to be wrong. 350,000 people live in in Europe. Yes, in different countries, different language. But oh, maybe no one say 50%, 50%. They speak English. So you can go everywhere you want. You have one, you have one, currency. So you got everything, but you have the rules and and the capitalism that is missing that allow fun. That is. Okay. So this guy must go to the U.S. It’s okay. No, because they want to. But be good. They must go. Otherwise there is no way they can skate because the money out there are not here. So, this is goes to everyone. This wouldn’t say founders. I’ve been talking to fund this for the last two years, and without any exaggeration, I interviewed more than 500 that publicly. I brought onstage more than 600 pitching this just in 24 months. And when I talk to them, they all there. We are frustrated. We can’t even raise 250 K because we, the angel company, they want 30% of the funding of the company. If they give me the tweet 250 K and we’re 250 K, maybe the U.S is not even from their family. probably not at all. So the difference must see. This is why this fund, this must accept any form of motivation because there is a huge lack of money, the fi, the very little number of venture capitalist, which is absolutely little competitive on this today. Europe is ridiculous, but there is no way they can fill the gap. Americans can fill the gap because amount of money come from us is under ten speaker. But again it you fail if you have funded it. Come to having your startup in Europe and when you even start doing anything, you must already pay so much in compliance. You need to care a GDPR even you need the EU. You had to start selling you already to pay solely attention because they come to find you close. It’s very frustrating if you trust me. Yeah, you are right. We must be in between. But these to be in between is good for us and for us.

Jeffery: The no fair, fair. And, you know what? It’s great. I love it, and you’re right. The middle ground has some shortcomings, and those can only be pushed and opened up, hopefully. But when you look at the size of the GDP of Europe compared to the US, the US is still larger and they still have a dominance over that. So there’s still has to be a middle ground player in there. And I think that you’re right, entrepreneurs need to keep pushing the envelope and pushing the lines. And that’ll change the way this works. But I think that’s in time. But your your argument is bang on that. In order for these things to change, they need to have more people pushing because it’s cost too much money for these entrepreneurs to work and operate in Europe with the guidelines that they do have. And those guidelines, either they get pushed out or they or they get a bit altered. So let’s pray that they get altered in the meantime, we’re going to switch to our next segment. We’re going to hustle through this. so the way this works is you pick one or the other, and we’ll, we’ll dive right in. So coming from, your investor hat on, would you rather invest in a founder or co-founders?

Massimiliano: Solo founder.

Jeffery: Okay. Unicorn or a four year, ten exit.

Massimiliano: Four year, ten x exit

Jeffery: Tech or CPG.

Massimiliano: Tech?

Jeffery: NFTs or web 3.0.

Massimiliano: That’s a huge question. I don’t believe in both of them, but Web3 NFT for sure.

Jeffery: Okay, I or blockchain?

Massimiliano: Yeah.

Jeffery: first time founder or second? Third time founder.

Massimiliano: Second possibility.

Jeffery: Okay. First money in or series A.

Massimiliano: First money.

Jeffery: Angel or VC.

Massimiliano: Angel.

Jeffery: Board. Cedar observer.

Massimiliano: Board

Jeffery: Safe or convertible. Note.

Massimiliano: Safe.

Jeffery: Lead or follow.

Massimiliano: Lead.

Jeffery: Favorite part of investing.

Massimiliano: So again.

Jeffery: Favorite part of investing?

Massimiliano: I mean, what do you mean we feel about investing?

Jeffery: do you like the founders? Like what? What drives you to want to keep investing in these areas?

Massimiliano: By far the founder I mean, when I say sort of fund, that does mean, can fund this, but sometimes go fund a defined. So if I find evidence of a fund strong enough, I can go for it.

Jeffery: Okay. Number of in company, number of companies invested per year.

Massimiliano: We lost the only one previously overall to a perfect.

Jeffery: Nope. That’s good. verticals of focus. What area is your new fund going to be going into? Which are you going to be driving to?

Massimiliano: As I said, I’m not investing any more as an angel. I’m moving to investing, accelerator next year. Pre-Seed. first check, primarily healthcare. I’ll help. Okay. Kind mind over them. I could remember them. good. impact for sure. mobility, education, energy and food. There’s love it.

Jeffery: Two qualities for a start up to stand out to you.

Massimiliano: Two qualities. I mean, there are there are many. But, first of all, I hate to see, as I’m talking about very early stage, modest or double and talk about funders themself, I had to see a very strong attitude. I mean, I hate to see people really will never give up until the last, last, last second, of leaving an opportunity to, to get on. So I need to see a very minded, strong minded IT guys. At the same time, I need to see guys that are capable to listen and not the big mind enough just thinking they’re the number one because they are. In this case, you can’t teach anything to them.

Jeffery: I love it. What piece of advice do you give nine out of ten times two founders?

Massimiliano: I say them listen to the others, but in the end of the day, you are the one who must decide. Don’t let anyone decide. If you had to fight fair with your mind, this might.

Jeffery: I love it. Do you have a philosophy or rules that you stand behind? Always?

Massimiliano: Yes, yes I do. first of all, I said before, don’t be a possibilita. If you must only lead by example. I do this every day. I work over 14 hours per day. I enjoy. I tell my team, you don’t need to not work like me. You are not indefinite. You are employees, right? So do your job, take care of family, stay with your family and your love is word for this department. So my that’s my that’s my my role is absolutely not to be a boss. I don’t like boss. Just don’t.

Jeffery: Love it. Who is your hero mentor and why?

Massimiliano: Oh I mean I, I enjoyed Steve Jobs so much because he was totally out of the box. Totally. And I, I like people or they do not yet respect the rules that do not follow 100% them in terms that you must think as you are right advice would be all the same. So I’m Max, you are Jeffrey. We can be the same. We can’t think in the same way. So I like people that stand out, people that think in a different way. I do love it this way. Steve Jobs, people, they try, they think a different way. And then of course, I mean, everyone loves you. I mean, some doesn’t probably, but I do love this kind of people. Elon Musk, for example, is another very beautiful example, except for the temperament, sometimes it just too much, right? You don’t teach people the good things when you talk in this way, but except for that, it’s another guy that thinks out of the box so very much, what he wants in terms of trying whatever you want. And don’t be scared by nobody. this is beautiful. This beautiful.

Jeffery: Perfect. All right. We’re going to move into our personal segment. So pick one or the other. Same as prior. Most famous person that pops in your mind. Who?

Massimiliano: Model. But I’m.

Jeffery: Nice.

Massimiliano: I was becoming an actor.

Jeffery: No, that’s good man. I like that first brand that pops in your mind.

Massimiliano: Good, good, good. I’m just saying that.

Jeffery: Okay. Book or movie.

Massimiliano: Again?

Jeffery: Book or movie?

Massimiliano: I love books. Some appearances before I do one. Enjoy the most, movie. But, you know, the number one is by far the most beautiful in my life. The Godfather number one.

Jeffery: Well, that’s going to answer one of my questions, so that’s good. Superman or Batman? Which one?

Massimiliano: Batman But but I mean, only two to watch. Of course.

Jeffery: Okay. Fortune cookie or birthday cake?

Massimiliano: Bidding a cake.

Jeffery: Okay. Five minutes with Bezos or Oprah?

Massimiliano: Oprah.

Jeffery: Mountain or beach?

Massimiliano: Beach

Jeffery: Bike or run.

Massimiliano: Run.

Jeffery: Big Mac or chicken McNugget.

Massimiliano: Say again.

Jeffery: Big Mac or chicken McNuggets.

Massimiliano: Big Mac.

Jeffery: Trophy or money.

Massimiliano: Money.

Jeffery: Bear or wine.

Massimiliano: Wine.

Jeffery: Ted talk or book reading.

Massimiliano: Booklet.

Jeffery: TikTok or Instagram.

Massimiliano: None of them.

Jeffery: Facebook or LinkedIn.

Massimiliano: LinkedIn.

Jeffery: Favorite movie and what character would you play?

Massimiliano: The Last Tango in Paris with mother brother whispering okay.

Jeffery: Favorite book.

Massimiliano: Subject?

Jeffery: Favorite sports team?

Massimiliano: Juventus.

Jeffery: Nice. What is your superpower?

Massimiliano: Never give up. I absolutely there’s no way with zero.

Jeffery: I love it. I think you also bring to the table. from the entrepreneurial perspective, if your drive that gets people into what you’re doing excitement level. So I love that. Yeah. what is the meaning of success to you?

Massimiliano: Success is, for me, just independence I couldn’t see with only because it gives you so much independence. I don’t care for that, I don’t care, I just don’t mind but be freedom to do whatever they want for me. It’s not price.

Jeffery: I love it. Well, Max, this comes to the end of the show, and I want to thank you so much for joining us today. we’ve learned a significant amount of taking a million pages of notes, but I want to thank you very much for all of your time for sharing. And the way that we do like to end our show is that we like to give you the last word, anything that you want to share to the entrepreneurial community, to investors. I turn it over to you. Please share also how they can get Ahold of you. But thank you again for all of your time today. It’s been a real pleasure.

Massimiliano: Thank you Jim, thank you so much to the investors. I would like to say be more have more compassion to the founders and don’t treat them like a numbers because they are just too many. But give it back to them because many times that they just treated not as they deserve to the founders. absolutely never. give up until the last related that I seen funders a day before becoming a billion company thinking to give up exactly that before close the company. And after a while and after 24, 36 months, become hugely successful. So you never know. Tomorrow is going to be until the last breath. Don’t give up. I mean, success comes the day after failure. So you must you must keep going, keep going, keep going. If you start yourself up, never look back. Just go ahead. And did it. Crush. If you crushes find failure. You must have learned by failure. If you fail, it’s okay. I failed in my life. I’m here today. So if you fail, that’s fine. As long as you learn method if you dare. They do are a next time you don’t make the same mistake. You okay? You can go. And one day, if you keep going, I truly mean it. If you really believe you keep going. You will get things done before or later. This way, because they can come later. You need to get it done to come this it.

Jeffery: I love it and how can people get Ahold of you?

Massimiliano: I mean, you can reach me on LinkedIn, without any problem, or an equity match to get in touch with my team. You can get straight to me.

Jeffery: I love it again. Thank you very much for your time today. Max is a pleasure.

Massimiliano: My pleasure. And thank you so much for having me. Thank you.