Jeffery: Welcome to Impact Investing, brought to you by the Supporters Fund from the water Capital of the world, Marseilles, France. I’m your host, Jeffrey JP Potvin. And let’s please welcome from the largest open air art gallery in the world, Berlin, Germany. Our guest, Jessica Birley from Planet Ventures. Welcome, Jessica. It’s a real pleasure having you join us today.

Jessica: Hi, Jeffrey. Thanks a lot. Very happy to be here.

Jeffery: Well, I’m very excited to get the opportunity to dive into Planet Ventures and yourself because, one, you’ve taken a really cool, different way, approach and journey into the venture world. So I think that’s pretty exciting. And of course, what you guys are doing in Berlin, Berlin, Germany is also very exciting. But before we dive into all of that and start to break through all this, maybe what we can do is we can start off by learning a little bit more about yourself all the way back from your university research days to where you are today, and then share one thing about you that nobody else would know.

Jessica: Sure. Happily. so maybe starting out with the. The one thing that not many people would know is that, during my drive to work on environmental sustainability, doesn’t come from a love of nature. Originally, at least, since I’ve had, since adulthood, I’ve had, more deep appreciation for natural beauty. But I grew up in inner city London, so I didn’t have so many opportunities to to visit areas of great natural beauty. so environmentalism, for the sake of, of trees or lakes or mountains didn’t initially resonate so much with me. Actually, my my interest in climate originally stems from our, social impact concern. So, as I mentioned, growing up in, inner city London, it was also, the most deprived part of the UK back then. And I saw a lot of, inequality and, poverty. So I was really driven from a young age to, to work on that. but I, I sort of in teenage hood, I’d say, learned more about how climate change is impacting social issues. So, driving up environmental refugees and, and really hurting those on the margins the most. so I wanted to, to work on this sort of, plug the, the problem right at the source. rather than work a little bit further downstream. And, at the time that I was looking into it, countries were really breaking all of their commitments to climate, and companies were not, incentivized in any way to make any change. So there wasn’t so much in this space and also weren’t many courses directly focused on, on climate change. So I actually studied politics and international relations at university and focused as much of my research as I could on climate related international relations and environmental sustainability. and so I followed that track. When I left university, I went and worked at the UNDp for a program that was financing Clément entrepreneurship. yet ultimately I felt more aligned with the innovation that I was, researching then than actually working in the sort of big organization. And I, in my free time, was freelance writing for, the first textbook on lab grown meat, which was published by Senator Agriculture Society. I wrote the European chapter, initially focusing on the policy side of. That’s what I had a background in. But I through this got increasingly excited by the market and by the potential of one, one technology to completely alter an entire market. I mean, this is also, quite a few years ago. So it was a time when there was a lot pegged on, on central agriculture to sort of so far, our farming, issues with, with environment. and so I followed that passion and I moved to Berlin and joined a startup in circular economy. it’s a really fantastic city. As you mentioned earlier, that, you’re interested in it. the self-starter scene here is very strong. It seems like almost every other person is is working on something, and, it’s incredibly vibrant in that sense. and actually, the startup initially, was struggling to raise. So, it, exposed me to the importance of financing and VC to, to to take, off the ground and give legs to, to innovations in the climate space. and so I decided I really love to work in that. I did some shadowing work and some, some courses, but really, I was just very lucky in that I was introduced to Lawrence Leitner, who’s a climate founder and, he founded previously rebuy, which is Europe’s largest attribution platform. And then Tir mobility, which is one of was one of Europe’s fastest growing unicorns when I was working with him. And he actually committed 100% of his stake in, tier mobility to reinvest in the climate ecosystem. So I was sort of helping him. it began with sort of angel investments, and we pulled it out into a bit more of a fund. still just one up, but we we got a bit of a syndicate together, and we, made 16 investments together across different verticals of climate, which is super exciting. but at the same time, I got to meet Planet A as we had a co-investment and was very, impressed by the unique approach to, measuring impact. and so I, they were looking to expand the team. I was looking to work in a little bit of a larger team. And so I joined them about two years ago. so, yeah, as you mentioned, a very untraditional route to work. I like to think that a bit of understanding policy comes in handy now and then as a green tech markets do, I very, heavily influenced by policy. and, and the research skills, of course, come in handy every now and then.

Jeffery: That’s awesome. I think that, to kind of unpack that and it’s great and interesting to hear that you’ve kind of morph not only into the role, but your understanding of climate tech also morphed because, as you said, you came from London and then kind of jumped into this. And I will say that most people, that I’ve met from, in Germany and now that you’re coming into Germany, is that they’re very outdoorsy. everywhere that I’ve traveled, I always run into somebody and it’s not in a city. It’s in a mountain somewhere, and they’re always German. It’s very rare that you meet other people, because I think Germans just love to get outside, which is brilliant. I got to say, Canadians do as well. But maybe not to the same extent. so it’s pretty cool that you’ve kind of morphed into all of these and, and of course, now to where you are today. So if you take and go back a little bit from the research side, you know, I think that this probably has made a really a big difference in your ability to look at the investment field. Is that a lot of investments does come from deep research and understanding of markets, and understanding of where these businesses would fit. How much do you think that that’s kind of played in your ability to work in this space? Obviously, later on you drove into governance and you got into areas that probably would help exemplify your skills. But research is a pretty big, daunting task when it comes to investigating if this company has the ability to be a player, or they’re not going to make it. How much do you feel the weight has been put on that ability that you’ve built, to support where you’re going today?

Jessica: A great question. Yeah. I, I think research is really critical to, to looking into, companies more generally speaking, there are, of course, other parts, interpersonal connections with the founder to also convince them and, to better understand whether they have the drive that will lead them through, especially in the early stages. but really, in, in kind of a research is a large part of what we, we do and, we have our own science team actually in-house, which I’m sure we’ll touch on a bit later. who, who are helping us with that side of it? but also we, of course, do it in the investment team as well. And, in fact, we’ve divided the team so that, we can dive really deep into topics. we’ve divided the team into different sectors. So I’m focused on energy and transport as well as a few other data topics. but in a sense, what that means is I go very, very deep because I’m unable to to like, have that focus, have that time to focus on those sectors and do that extra research, but also because my job is to meet the frontrunners of the industry. And, they’re often making innovations that you can’t research because they don’t yet exist. And so really, getting to speak to them every day is, one of the best ways to research is you learn so much from from drawing on their expertise.

Jeffery: So it’s kind of interesting the way you stage that because you’re meeting with these frontrunners, which are going to be government policy makers, changers, breakers, all of those kind of things that are aligning in the space that you’re going after. And you mentioned one key word, which is focus. So it’s allowed you to have a focus on a certain sector, which I think is huge. And if you were to turn this around and we were talking to a founder right now, that would be kind of the key word right now, which would be focus. What are you focusing on? What is actually making your business work and if the founders doing the right things, they’re going to be focused on one thing, not 500. So if you’re taking what you’re focused on and how you’re working with all of these governing bodies to enable you and your startups to be able to go through these channels, is there an approach that you’ve taken to get these governing bodies to a side to what you’re trying to achieve with your founders, because you’re most doing it on behalf of them? You’re saying, hey, we’ve got this really good company that we want to get behind. The policies don’t align properly, so they’re going to fail if we don’t step in and start pushing the envelope with some of these, bodies in government, etc.. So you’re kind of out there making friendships and networking to build those forward. What are the things they’re looking for and how are you feeling? You’re able to shape and change the way these policies are working, if at all possible. Today.

Jessica: Yeah, it’s a fantastic question. And in fact, it’s something that I would love to spend more time on. time is really, as you said, focus is everything. Time is really pressured and busy. So my main job as an investor and, I don’t actually work that much with policymakers and the partners at Planet Eleanor. Ted, my background is originally in advising the German government on, environmental issues. And so she’s, driving that more planet A and we do have relation to, clean tech for Europe, which is a green tech lobby group or advocacy group. really, trying to, yeah, make the green agenda heard. and they write, like, open letters or so, and try to influence that. I wouldn’t say that we have, like, a direct ability to influence, government in a much wider sense. But we, of course, would, like to advocate for for the general movement. I wish we had a magic wand to sort of, get rid of the red tape around some of the cool innovations we’re seeing. For example, we have an investment in geothermal drilling, which is very regulated space, of course. And, another in, precision fermentation for creating, essentially, lipids to go into, to fake meat products, which is also highly regulated space. But in reality, I mean, of course, we also need these, spaces like food and energy to be highly regulated. so we’re not really working on, on changing that within kind of eg. not more just like pushing the green agenda, more broadly, if that makes sense. It does.

Jeffery: And I guess when you like you said, you have teams and people that are operating in different focuses to help all of this kind of move forward. When you take back again the governance, the political side, the research side. Is there one thing that you kind of share with the founders when you’re making this investment and saying, hey, look, we need you to be here in 3 to 5 years, and we know that the red tape is going to be very, tough in this side. If you start today working through the ecosystem and doing these things, we believe that you can get past this in 3 to 4 years. That’s the reason we’re making an investment. So you’re kind of coaching them through this long process that you know, is going to be probably long and tough and spend a lot of money and time. Are there a couple of things that you would share to founders to say, hey, keep this in mind, it’s a long journey, but here’s three things you got to look at right away to help you keep that focus to survive and win.

Jessica: Yeah, so I would have to differentiate here quite heavily between the different startups we’re looking at. And quite a few of the startups don’t actually face any red tape. And, you know that they’re already just creating software that that can be rolled out to more. And, we then have the others, which we look at, which, which are going to face those limits. and so even then the advice that we give is quite, quite company specific. Maybe I can give you an example. so we, we looked quite a lot at, green aviation. we didn’t make an investment here, but there the advice is really to take off the shelf components and, and really not try to innovate too much, but just get them into a plane and get it off the ground before, before anyone else to to try and be first to market. And then once you have that, you can really start generating revenue and then building a business and improving the technology. but actually to integrate the best in class because there’s so many others creating the components that you can then, already use in the aviation, or in the aircraft, that it makes a lot more sense than trying to, go through the very long processes to, to get that, particular component. allowed by the authorities. So that’s one example for like an extremely regulated space, like, travel as it should be. but I would say the majority of our companies actually don’t, face very strong barriers. and in fact, we often avoid companies that do face like, very long regulatory timelines because, we are a traditional VC fund, so we have a ten plus two timeline. And so we need to see, exit in that time. And so of course, revenues need to be generated relatively early on. so we’re limited in that sense. what’s nice and maybe a little bit unusual about planet is that we’re not limited in terms of, LPA around, hardware. We are able to do a significant amount of fun in either pure hardware or hybrid. So that’s software with hardware. and we’re also looking into deep tech investments, which puts us, I think, a little bit differentiated from from quite a few other releases traditionally.

Jeffery: Now that’s awesome. And when you’re, when you’re looking at and you mentioned before, you work with a circular based, startup as well. So you’ve carried that experience into what you’re looking for in the types of investments you’re going after today. Is there also an underlying view when you’re looking at a startup to say company A is going to disrupt this space, which means these big players are going to end up losing revenue, which means they might come out harder and try and cause mayhem against the startup. Nobody wants to lose revenue. They may create different restrictions. Take Airbnb as an example. Every city’s now pushing back against it because the cities are losing money and the city isn’t going to lose money and let someone come in and eat their lunch when they can’t pay their bills and they’re in massive debt already. So they’re going to start to push back, and they have the power to push back versus the power that, say, Airbnb does. So do you kind of look at the same when you’re looking at these, closed, circular economies and you’re saying, look, you’re going to be disrupting this so much that you’re eating up a big chunk of pie. So here’s the best way to kind of approach this, because the other day everybody has to make their money. You can’t just, you know, clean out $1 billion company tomorrow because, you came up with a better way to, to make money over here. And you’re just kind of moving that money train around. So is there other ways that create value that you can say to these startups, when you’re going into this environment and saying, hey, look, you’re building something this cool here, but if you take this approach, you’ll be able to get into market without them attacking you. There might be a way to get them to invest. Like whatever those logical pieces. Are there things that you guys look into a plan a day and bake into your model?

Jessica: It’s, super interesting on, so I would say, first of all, very few startups that I look at, are really trying to completely displace incumbents. I don’t look at circular economy startups personally anymore, but majority of the plays here are actually enabling, the consumer goods companies to capture more revenue. Right. That that’s, there’s going to be always an secondary market for that product. So why should they own it and then get that margin themselves? and I think that there’s a comparable sort of, trend playing out across different industries where a lot of startups are working with these big corporates or with these big incumbents, to improve some, you know, the first sort of, optimal, for example, advises one of our portfolio companies, advises good estate managers on how to retrofit the, the, the housing so that they don’t have huge stranded assets because, the new regulations coming in. I mean, that if you haven’t got a certain level of energy efficiency, your, your building is, is no longer rentable or, has huge penalties all the time, this sort of thing. and I think in general, there’s a writing on the wall that they do need to change. And that’s why we see even companies that are purely based on something that’s anti-environmental, like oil and gas, that they’re all trying to diversify, in fact, that they’re also making investments into green tech. and I think it it’s really. It’s very rare that I see a case that’s like very much, trying to displace all incumbents. I think more often it’s tried to sell to the incumbents or trying to change the incumbents. And I also believe and I think it’s something that is often not talked about in, in the green space, but that a lot of, the skills that we have in, the incumbent industries such as oil and gas are going to be critical to the green transition. So, if you, for example, take, geo drilling, one of our portfolio companies, which is doing deep geothermal training with these supercritical drills so that they can get through the Earth’s crust and get to geothermal energy in almost all parts of the world. they actually have on their website even that they desperately need people with and background in oil and gas because they’re the ones who have that kind of operational knowhow to to run these projects. so I’m not sure if that directly answers your question, but effectively, I think that it’s more collaborative than, than us sort of recommending them how to, take over the world and say.

Jeffery: Oh, that’s a, that’s a brilliant way of, of phrasing it, because you’re literally saying that in order for you to be successful and to the the part they put on the website is, we need people that have been doing this for ten, 20, 30 years, and we’re only going to get them if we start to reach out to them and look for them, to support what we’re trying to achieve, because more hands make less work. Now, they may not look at it that way, and they may think that, you’re literally trying to steal ideas or,

Jessica: Poach.

Jeffery: Top talent. But really, that talent is what’s going to shift it. And I think it goes back to the paper that, you originally created around and structured around, the, the meatless products. It’s the same kind of idea that when that was first put together, it was probably a hope and a dream that this could be something that would compete one day against, the regular, meat industry. And today it’s almost part and parcel supporting each other because everybody still wants meat, but they’re now also okay with cutting out 1 or 2 pieces to have this meatless environment, which, you know, maybe ten, 20 years ago, that would have been unheard of. So it’s starting to generate value that says, hey, we can have both of these operate together, allow people to have choices. And, you know, if you’re going to build a company, find the people that carry enough industry knowledge, even if it’s not comparable or 100% comparable or exact, they’re going to bring a lot of value to you to help you grow your business. And I think there’s a lot to be said about how you work with these, incumbents to get value from that, to support your growth of your company. If you take kind of now where you’re positioned and what you’ve done inside of the fund and how you got there, it doesn’t seem that far fetched. Like I think originally when you you make it not yourself, but when you talk to the story, it makes it sound like, hey, I just randomly fell into this great venture world, but it kind of sounds more like positionally, as you matured through business, you just rightfully went from being in research, writing papers in new innovative areas, and it just kind of landed you into the next position where you got in with someone that was doing investments, that had a big interest in this climate space, and you kept shifting and growing and maturing in this space to get to where you are today. Is there any recommendations you would give, what you’ve learned so far in this space that says if you have an interest to do exactly what you’re doing, this is the better way to go. I think from a schooling and from all of the things you’ve done, it just aligns perfectly to what you’re doing today. and maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you could say, you know what? I still need a PhD, or I’m never going to be successful as a venture firm, but is there something or a few things that you would recommend to others that are heavily interested in shifting into this space that that you’re currently in?

Jessica: Yeah, I think you’re actually already set it and hit the nail on the head. You’ve really, I mean, if I could be in the place to give you an advice, it would be to follow your best and and what you enjoy. And that’s usually it goes hand in hand. and there isn’t, there’s a traditional route into VC, of course, but this is increasingly, especially for climate VC. not not the typical way, especially in climate VC. I say, because we actually need a lot more people with science backgrounds and PhDs, as you mentioned. But then we also need on the platform side more people with communications background and able to, support our founders with explaining with quite complex ideas to, to the wider public and to policymakers and, and all sorts of different, skills that are needed in VC, and perspectives, of course. So I wouldn’t yeah, I wouldn’t be able to give a sort of, list of skills or, checkboxes that anyone should try and get if they want to work in the space. but maybe also to flag that I don’t think, VC is necessarily the only, let alone most, impactful job that one can have in climate. And actually being on the ground in operating and supporting climate startups or scale ups is also, extremely fulfilling. And, I think also a great range of VC in, in the later stages is I think it brings a lot more, credibility when you’re talking to a founder, if you’ve actually worked somehow in the or founded your own startup. And in fact, most of the GPA’s at planet A are founders themselves, and I think it gives them a lot more, not just credibility, but understanding. For the founder journey.

Jeffery: It totally does. Is there? I’ll share a quick story, because I find that this kind of part and parcel to your journey, but also to potentially others, is that, over the years, I have gone back and forth teaching, courses in entrepreneurship, and I like to treat it like it’s, petri dish. This everything you can test and figure out what the outcome is going to be after. But it’s like throwing things out and seeing what sticks, but also how people can learn differently. And I would take first year students, and I would get them to do a project on who they want to work for. And those first year students would come back with the project. It would be, I can’t work for these companies because they don’t have ESG. They don’t have all of these requirements that fit this personal development that they’ve been taught over the last ten, 15 years of of being in the education system. So they come back and say that I can only work for this company because, they only are ethically hiring, etc., etc. they do all of these checklist. And then I would do the same thing for fourth year students. and these are university and college, and the fourth year students have taken a whole different approach. They literally have looked at life the same way. But now they say, I work for these guys because they pay the most money and I don’t care about all of these other things. So taking this learning, do you find that the influence of society is impacting the way investors want to invest in climate, or the way businesses want to operate and work within climate? Because of the financial value that’s coming to this. If I want to work with someone that is completely sustainable, it may not work because there might not be the dollars in the industry. I know you’re starting to see more happen in the climate space, but if if we can’t be competitive and there isn’t enough dollars, are you losing talent because people are going towards where the money is and they’re shifting their principles because they need to survive? So I know this is a loaded question. What do you how do you feel that this is shifting your mindset now that you’re an investor, taking that you came from the same style of university years back, that you probably came in and wanting ESG, wanting all these things. And then today that may have shifted. And is it following the money and not following the ethics side of saving the world?

Jessica: it’s it’s such a, multifaceted question that, there’s a lot to unpack, but maybe to touch on, on one part of it. first of all, I really do see so much more talent wanting to work in climate. And I think that is, quite a driving force, actually, for, for companies to want to change, to be more green. But then I also see that one of the most powerful ways to have impact is to change the company that you’re part of. And, and to to join it, but then train from the inside to have some influence, with, with your own values. And it gives me great hope to see that, at least from the different interview, and, pulls out there, the young people are so motivated to, to take sacrifices also in salary and so on, in order to work in something more impactful. And that is, really driving I think also a lot of the, the shift of big companies towards, towards taking more care and sustainability and, diversity and other impact metrics. there’s many more things I can comment on. Did that sort of give some answer, or is there something else that you’d like to unpack a bit more?

Jeffery: No, I think that’s great. You’re giving the world hope. It is. You’re saying that really, at the end of the day, as much as we’re going to shift our mindset to chase the dollar, there are people out there that will still fit to fit the bill and will still dive into climate, tech and everywhere else that can help save the planet. And they’re willing to do it at a cost of their own dollars so that they can help the planet. So I think that that’s very well shared and fantastic. way to share it too. So thank you.

Jessica: And I think also that there’s, that we at least at planet, I have a strong belief that the biggest companies of tomorrow will be those having the biggest impact. That’s partly why we have our own sort of in-house quantification of, impact of I think very deep about this because, with the coming regulations and public scrutiny and pressure on all organizations, I think that the ones that are greenwashing, today are not going to be the big companies of tomorrow because they are just going to be found out. And so be really careful about that, because not just from some kind of ethical reason, but also because we believe that those are where you’ll get the greatest financial gains as ones that are already, frontrunners in this huge economic and societal transition. Right? This is the greatest transition of our generation. And so it’s kind of it’s not a trend. It’s it’s the future. And so if we are really betting on the companies that are at the front of that movement, then those are going to be also the biggest financial gains. so yeah, to answer your question, I think that that there are definitely people sacrificing, some, some of their salary to, to join that kind of movement. But also in the end, I think that this will be the biggest winners. And beyond that, if you do join a company that is, more where your, you know, prioritizing salary over impact, you can actually still have a huge amount of impact there, and perhaps even more than someone fighting to get into the green sector. and maybe just an additional tidbit, I learned, last week is that I think 30 million jobs are going to be made in Europe, and the green workforce in the next decade, which is crazy amount of jobs. So it’s really quite exciting. Also, from the perspective of, of job creation, rather than sort of displacing, lots of work because it’s creating new jobs in agriculture. And then, in, energy and construction and so on. So, yeah, there’s is sort of many, many topics there, but I have an excitement for.

Jeffery: I love it. It’s, it’s a very good share. And I think that the, the optimistic side is that hopefully, just as innovation has changed the way everybody works and operates from AI all the way up to machinery, that as these changes are being done in the climate tech or green tech space, you’re going to see that shift happening dramatically to create new jobs, because you’re going to have different forms of governance, securities, product formation, everything that you’re going to be doing has to change in order to enable all of this. So you’re you’re very correct. I would think that there’s, you know, 30 million or 300 million. There’s going to be a lot of jobs that are created because of this, new shift. And I think the best part that, I heard from that was that on the the companies that are greenwashing will eventually fail because you can only keep stealing profit before people start to call it out and start to jump on it. And, and I think that’s where the big change you’ll see is the greenwashing. Hopefully it stops and it gets crushed out of there. And the companies that are running this and they’re doing it for the right reasons, are going to be the ones that become the large entities driving the world in the future. And we can only hope that that’s the case.

Jessica: Absolutely.

Jeffery: We’re going to we’re going to shift now into, our 62nd rant. So hopefully you’re ready to, to jump on this one. the way it works is you’ve got 60s to rant about anything you like. I will try my hardest to form a rebuttal and then you will close it off. if you’re ready, I’ll start the timer within. at the 62nd. Marco kind of raised my hand, but I will say that nobody has ever done 60s. So, I guess rant away. And, when I feel you’re close to your rant, then I’ll kind of do the hand thing, because the 62nd never works. So are you ready to go?

Jessica: Let’s try.

Jeffery: All right, you’re on. Go.

Jessica: So my rent is about, that I don’t believe we can get to, a world within our planetary boundaries, either by, degrowth nor by, not changing anything and having just, saving everything via, capitalism and, innovation. I think that we cannot do decrease in a democracy. and that’s ultimately it would need some authoritarian rules to, to force everyone to degrowth. And it’s also, it’s only via sacrifice. Right? So it’s very hard to get people to sign up to that willingly. and it’s also, in my view, a huge, hugely anti progressive. at the same time, I don’t believe that we can fully live the lives that we’re currently living, without having any kind of, alteration in consumers or the public, more widely speaking. but I don’t believe on top of that that changes have to be negative. I think that there’s a lot of, wonderful things that can come out of such a transition. And it doesn’t have to be a, discourse around sacrifice, but rather, admitting that we have to change, but not necessarily take, sacrifice or, degradation of our quality of life. And in fact, it can really improve our quality of life. Since I mentioned at the start, those, great beauty and I’m finally realizing the great beauty of nature and bringing that to to everyone and enabling more people to access that, such as in Zurich, you can swim in the middle of the city, in the lake, in the river. and of course, you can do that in London or any other city that I know of that that’s one example. But also just having fresh air in the middle of the city because you don’t have the fumes, or having, access to healthy food that was grown locally and is nutritious. I mean, there’s also huge health crises that are happening because of over farming our lands. And these are also impacting the the lives of all of us. And so, I think that, I’m, I’m out of examples right now, but there are many, many examples of ways that we can change our lives in a positive way.

Jeffery: I love it. Now, my counter to this, which is I think it sounds plausible, sounds great, I love it, but are you not working yourself out of a job? So venture capitalists, their goal is all about capital. It’s not about changing and making things green. It doesn’t pay the bills. So how do you balance these two out? Because at the end of the day, I again, you’re 100% correct that the world needs to go and make a shift into a positive outcome that will benefit everybody so that it’s not just about capitalism, but on the other side of it, it’s capitalism. And we’ve all learned, and I’m going to say it’s the American way. It’s capitalism at its finest. And the rest of the world is trying to catch up to the American way always and has been for hundreds of years. So now how do you make that shift and say that this is a better way of living? What is the case study that shows that this is a better way of living versus working hard, chasing capitalism and living with the outcome, which is maybe the disasters that are everywhere because we just don’t take time to really think through a process.

Jessica: Yes, and I’m sorry I didn’t give you much context or I think I didn’t fully explain my ideas. So I’m still pro capitalism. I still think that we need capitalism, especially in places like climate where we really need to hyper grow this and we need capitalism to continually. It’s the only way that we found that works to continually, bring innovation to our societies. but what I wanted to say was that, the idea that we could somehow completely innovate our ways out of this while driving around SUVs and, you know, just continue to live the exact same lines that we do eating, steak every meal is it’s just not realistic. And I think that, I think that there’s benefits or sort of changing, and, I, I think you touched on a much larger point, which is also I, I’m not per this kind of community of people that a degrowth, which is a there’s a huge development gap in the world, and we need a lot of growth to propel those people to or countries, communities, if you want to call it the the majority of the world to to get to a better living standard, get education, get health. And and that’s really a priority over the green. But, I don’t have a solution. I’m afraid I haven’t figured out how to save the world and that kind of a scale, but, I think it’s that there must be a way that we get capitalism to work. Well, internalizing the externalities, which is. So, freebie sort of externalized for the last however many centuries, is, is they we need to create, capitalism that internalizes environmental impacts. But capitalism is the only way to do this, in my opinion, at least. And, I see the criticisms that come from the degrowth movement, and I think that it’s always good to have a critical eye on the systems that we’re invoked with. but I cannot see any other way. so I also don’t have a solution for it. All right.

Jeffery: Well, we’ve got time to think of a solution so you can work on that next paper, but I think you’re on to something for sure that there is a shift that has to happen. And maybe the only way this shift will occur is that Covid created, higher levels of greed and demand. Maybe a recession can finally create, a shift and change of balance so that more people can work together to benefit and grow and reduce the consumption of I need everything and and work off being minimalists. And maybe there’s a way that it will balance itself out in time. And, you know, that only takes others to make that movement and other people to kind of follow behind the ideals that if I have less and I’m still able to prosper and live and have a great family, then maybe everybody else will want the same thing. Instead of overconsumption, overconsumption, you can only need so many boats and everything else in your life. So maybe there is a way that, it somehow comes through wherever that is. But we’ll look for your white paper over the next couple of years, because it would be fascinating to see how this is going to unfold.

Jessica: Yes. I’ll get working.

Jeffery: I love it, I love it. All right, we’re going to jump into some rapid fire questions. All right. So you’re going to pick one or the other from the investment perspective. Ready to roll.

Jessica: Let’s go. All right. It

Jeffery: From an investment perspective, would you be investing in a founder or co-founder?

Jessica: A co-founders.

Jeffery: Okay. Unicorn or a four year, ten x exit

Jessica: Unicorn

Jeffery: Do you prefer tech or CPG?

Jessica: Tech

Jeffery: NFTs or web 3.0?

Jessica: Neither

Jeffery: Fare okay. AI or blockchain.

Jessica: AI?

Jeffery: first time founder or second or third time founder?

Jessica: No. Second or third.

Jeffery: Okay. First money in or series A?

Jessica: First money in.

Jeffery: Angel or VC.

Jessica: VC.

Jeffery: Board seat or observer.

Jessica: Board seat.

Jeffery: Safe or convertible. Note.

Jessica: Safe.

Jeffery: Leader. Follow.

Jessica: Preferably priced or. Yep. lead.

Jeffery: Okay. Favorite part of investing?

Jessica: And the founders.

Jeffery: Number of companies invested per year?

Jessica: Eight perfect verticals to focus energy and transport. For me, that’s, I’m not speaking for planet eight for any of these points. Okay.

Jeffery: Two qualities a startup needs in order to stand out to you.

Jessica: Some. determination and, vision. I like it.

Jeffery: Toughest lesson you’ve learned or witnessed as an investor?

Jessica: It’s very hard to give a one word answer to this one, but. Oh, you can.

Jeffery: Make it a sentence. You don’t have to make it one word. You can. You can elaborate on this one. This is an elaboration question.

Jessica: but investing during the times of, macroeconomic turbulence, I suppose the idea is, yeah. To avoid, to avoid hype. So both, to be aware of is the macroeconomic conditions and how that might impact, earliest stage and private markets. thankfully, I’ve had those around me who are more aware of this and, have guided me, to avoid too many painful learnings that say. But, definitely something that I’m learning day by day.

Jeffery: You know what? It’s a that’s a fantastic point because because it’s flashy for today, it doesn’t mean it’ll be flashy tomorrow. And I think sometimes we get caught up in the hype and we follow the hype, and we invest in things that we’ll use. Examples of NFTs. the hype went up pretty crazy on NFTs, buying a picture for, millions of dollars, and now they’re worth pennies. So, you know, maybe in time there’ll be some value for it. But I think we got we get caught up in the hype of the flashy shirt, and the flashy shirt doesn’t look good. And five years from now, it’s, too flashy. Today it will be just as bad. Next year. So, it’s very valid. So, love it. Okay. Next question. What piece of advice would you give nine out of ten founders?

Jessica: choose your co-founder wisely.

Jeffery: Isn’t that the truth? Good question. Good answer. Sorry. I guess it could be a good question too, but yeah, great answer. Do you have a philosophy or rules that you stand behind?

Jessica: I do, I have a philosophy for investment. yes, definitely. we really looking, for the huge upside potential and, really focused, especially at early, early stages. founder excellency and, Yeah, I’ll leave it at that. I could, I could probably go on for two hours on this topic, but let’s let’s keep it high level there.

Jeffery: Founder excellence is a good start. Who is your mentor and why?

Jessica: My mentor is probably, but my boss, just because. Well, not just because. Because I find them incredibly inspiring. And I get to learn from them every day. Yeah. Perfect.

Jeffery: What is your biggest fear or phobia in the business startup ecosystem?

Jessica: my my biggest, fear is that, t’s a hard one. it’s just, I think I.

Jeffery: Know Germany’s different.

Jessica: Go ahead. The fear that it could all be a scam or hoax, but luckily, we we have enough technical and legal detergents posts, sort of the, signing the initial term sheet that I think we we can avoid that, but it’s always a bit of a fear.

Jeffery: It’s interesting because that’s the direction I was going to go. I know Germany sets up a completely different when it comes to investing in companies in Germany, and they have a lot more rigorous process because of that same reason for the fear of scams. And, the rest of the world should take and learn from how Germany does it. But, a lot of the times it’s it’s almost like it’s it’s own island, but it is very, secure around that side. And the rest of the world has a lot of scams going on every day. So I would say that Germany’s probably done a better job at, vetting through those, but I’m sure there’s lots and still get through the cracks. So, it is, 100%. I can see as always being a fear. And a lot of investors share that as well.

Jessica: It’s interesting that it’s a German focus, but I definitely see that very, very focused on security.

Jeffery: I love it. Okay. We’re going to go into the next side. Personal questions same pick one or the other most famous person that pops in your mind.

Jessica: Obama.

Jeffery: Okay. First brand that pops in your mind.

Jessica: And Planet Adventures.

Jeffery: Oh, nice. Nice. You’ll be the first one that, had their own brand pop in their mind. That’s good. Book or movie

Jessica: Book.

Jeffery: Wonder woman. Or Robin.

Jessica: Wonder woman.

Jeffery: All right. I probably didn’t think that one. Oh, clear enough, but either way, fortune cookie. or birthday cake.

Jessica: Birthday cake.

Jeffery: Five minutes with Bezos or Oprah?

Jessica: Oprah.

Jeffery: Mountain or beach?

Jessica: Mountain

Jeffery: bike or run?

Jessica: Run.

Jeffery: Big Mac or chicken McNuggets.

Jessica: Never.

Jeffery: Fair. Trophy or money?

Jessica: Money.

Jeffery: Beer or wine?

Jessica: Wine.

Jeffery: Ted. Talk or book reading.

Jessica: A book reading.

Jeffery: TikTok or Instagram.

Jessica: Never.

Jeffery: Facebook or LinkedIn.

Jessica: LinkedIn.

Jeffery: Favorite movie and what character would you play?

Jessica: Of? Great question. Can I pass.

Jeffery: You? Can you.

Jessica: Its hard

Jeffery: Favorite book?

Jessica: I really enjoyed Minister of the future recently. I’m not sure it’s my all time favorite, but.

Jeffery: Ministry of the future.

Jessica: I never heard of that. And I look it up. Like it?

Jeffery: Not that I’m going to hear of every book, but I’m going to check that one out. All right. Favorite sports team?

Jessica: Pass. I don’t follow too much sports.

Jeffery: Fair enough. What is the meaning of success to you?

Jessica: For me personally, I think it’s, more of an enabling role. So enabling others to, get to their best and, Have a huge impact and thereby sort of accelerate, impact at a higher, higher level, I suppose, or my do more back seat, I love it.

Jeffery: What is your superpower?

Jessica: Fast learning I would say.

Jeffery: Well, I think you tie that together with, helping enables others to be successful in the areas they’re in. I think it’s pretty powerful. So I want to say, Jessica, it’s been a real pleasure getting the opportunity to chat with you today. I took a ton of notes. There’s lots of great material you’ve shared today. Thank you very much for that. And the way we like to end our show is we like to give you the last word. So anything that you want to share to the investors or to the startup community, I turn it over to you. Please share how people can get Ahold of you. But thank you very much for sharing today.

Jessica: Thank you so much for having me, Jeffrey. It’s been a pleasure. you can reach me at, my LinkedIn. I’m open to to inbound. maybe just read a note so I know who you are. I it’s very, very happy to meet others in the climate space. particularly any innovators.

Jeffery: I love it. Well, thank you very much again for joining us today.

Jessica: Thank you. Jeffrey.

Jeffery: Okay. That was a great conversation with Jessica. And we kind of dived into a bunch of different sectors. But I think what was really key to where and how she is, where she is today is that the research background from the schooling and working within that other venture firm, making the investments and then moving into, the new firm where she’s operating, I think that, planet A really helped shift where she was going. And each step of the way kind of was that next growth and phase in her career. And, you know, I think she shared some, some really good information, around the things that they’re looking for from, you know, founders that are, accelerating, you know, having more background in the sciences and the PhD side for getting into these, into venture space, markets that have secondary markets for products that can really help founders, explode and kind of merge into these new spaces. their innovating, but they’re not creating much red tape. They’re able to get in and make changes and move forward. And I think overall it just seemed like, a really good approach to how they’re making their investments, in the climate tech space. And they’ve got some, really good direction on how they help and support founders. So I think overall, great conversation. Thank you very much, Jessica, and thank everybody for joining us today. If you’ve enjoyed the conversation, please feel free to share with your friends, subscribe to our YouTube channel or follow us on Spotify, Amazon or Apple. Feel free to share an audio or video clip around our show, and we may include it in one of our future podcasts. You can find us on all social platforms, including LinkedIn at Supporters Fund. Your support and comments are truly appreciated. Please visit us at Supporters fund.com or startup events at Over People Network KGW.com. Thank you and have a fantastic day.