Jeffery:
Welcome, everybody! Today, we’re sitting with Colin Mullett and I want to say thank you very much for being with us today. We’re on our, I’m gonna make a guess and say, we’re between 40 and 60, if I should check the number but we just keep rolling. So on our interview podcast and very excited to have you here today. We got to learn a little bit about you, but I think today we’re going to really dive in and we’ve talked about some of the great podcasts we’ve done already, and it’s been a huge learning experience. But today, it’s calling, it’s your shine show, so let’s really make this thing but I’m excited to learn what there is. But the way we start off all of our shows is, I want to hear a little bit about your background. A little bit about where you’re at now, and what you’re up to, and then one thing about you that nobody will know.

Colin:
Oh jeez, yeah I’m not good at keeping stories about myself short but a little bit about me is, I think every investor I’ve watched, talk about their story, everyone says they’re atypical. So I’m not going to be any different than that. But my background, the relative contextualized to this is, I’m actually from the trade. So actually I spent 10 years as a roofer on the tools. I was always a good student and stuff like that, went to when was at college, I was gonna be a pharmacist, and had ideas to do that, and I was a good student blah blah. But you know, I found myself in the trades and I spent 10 years doing that. Investing along the way and picking up some real estate along the way. But roofing nonetheless, I spent five years as a manager, as a project manager at a large roofing and exterior herb in Calgary, and while I was there we planted a like, a subsidiary company to do commercial roofing and exteriors, and so that was year one.. year..month 14, while I was there and we grew from our first year, we did 440 in revenue. We had three employees and we grew that, and by the year four when I left, we did seven and a half million in revenue across four divisions and 41 employees. And so, I do actually know how to grow a business. I have a lot of context for what these guys are going through. I did that in like because I was a subsidiary. I was using other people’s resources to grow a business. As far as like personally, I got five kids. My domain of expertise is obviously, a roofing and a construction but you know, on a personal side, I’ve got, I really know a ton about personal relationships, about marriage. I got a solid marriage, I got solid kids, and I got incredible friendships, if like if you know, there’s my saying with my talk with my wife is like, “Babe, we’re already rich and one day we might be wealthy because I’m already rich in so many ways. I just feel super blessed for… because I’m not lonely.” So yeah, that would be kind of the without going too far down those rabbit holes in the afternoon, and then you know my day-to-day job now is I own real estate. So we’re rehabbing buildings that we’ve purchased and we’re building industrial park light services, meaning so we took 26 acres relatively flat and fencing it off, and rent you know, one land lease. So we’re doing one acre at a time, 10 acres at a time, whatever and so, those are my active businesses. And then this other thing, we got going on a couple years ago, I guess two Decembers ago, started Loonie Ventures which is, I’m a general partner in. We do angel investing, we cut checks between 10 and 25, 000 for really early stage kind of pre-seed seed and maybe up to series A, and then trying to develop a narrow thesis for how to invest in this really cool landscape which I really feel like I identify with the founders. So that’s hope, that’s short enough touches on enough to give context, so that I’m not good at keeping it short.

Jeffery:
Brilliant, man. I didn’t know you had five kids. That’s amazing!

Colin:
Yeah, I know. Yeah, thank you!

Jeffery:
You didn’t share that last time. That’s a big piece of information that is like saying-

Colin:
Four girls, one boy.

Jeffery:
Oh, that’s amazing man! That is so awesome, congrats! I don’t know how you have time to do anything. Five kids, wow…

Colin:
Wife man. Life hack number one: marry someone that you love and respect, and that’s gonna- it’s gonna do wonders.

Jeffery:
This makes things a lot easier. Well, congrats! That’s awesome to you and the wife. Brilliant and I do love the saying, “You guys are rich in life and one day maybe you’ll be wealthy.” I love that because it’s so true. There’s always room to grow everywhere but it seems like you’ve really planted yourself nicely, and you’re working everything out a little bit at a time and growing it. So that’s pretty exciting.

Colin:
Well, it speaks also to that like life is about the journey not the destination, right? There is a inflection point where you are actually financially independent, and when the day before that you’re not financially independent, and that really is a destination that you can measure and has a metrics and all that other stuff. But if that’s a 10-year journey or a 20-year journey or 30-year journey, I mean you’re miserable along the way, not rich along the way, then it’s like what have you traded? You’ve traded the most valuable thing in life which is time. And so I’m not gonna waste my time being miserable and making the sacrifices that aren’t worth it. So I’ve- I did that mental math with mentors and other people along the way, so that I’m rich and that is going- not going to ever be reflected in my bank account balance. So because I was rich before when I was still poor.

Jeffery:
Hey, that’s the best way to think man, I love that. So well, I don’t want to put your words in their mouth. One of one thing that somebody wouldn’t know about you, I would say the five kids is amazing. But there’s got to be something out there that it maybe won’t top that because I think five kids today is pretty incredible. But is there anything else that you would that noticed something that somebody wouldn’t know about you that’s fascinating?

Colin:
Yeah for your- for the audience, it would be interesting. I lived in a faith-based earth community for another six or eight months. It’ gonna be 13, 14 years ago and so it’s like it’s called Rosebud Alberta. It’s a little, it’s a community that runs a dinner theater and it’s the collection of the most like incredibly talented people. So it’s like being around just everyone was just incredibly gifted. So like you know, a party on a Friday night would be you know, someone would like jump on the piano, when someone would be playing and they would just like the violin. It’s like.. you’re like in some kind of like music video or something. It was far out and getting to connect with artists. They see the world a lot like founders do. They’re trying to pull principles, and life, and beauty out of things, and trying to see the future and very have you know trade openness. They’re very open to new ideas and just a great people. So that would be a different thing that you wouldn’t- that would not- that would never come up in conversation with you. You’d have to know me in order to know that so…

Jeffery:
Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah it’s a good experience. You get to learn from all facets of life and I love the creative big fan, but I think at the end of the day, you got to be a big fan of all sectors if you want to learn more about culture, investing, and everything else. You kind of have to fit in everywhere and just move as you go.
Colin:
Mile wide and an inch deep, I love that.

Jeffery:
Yep. There was when or when we had our initial conversations, I was really fascinated and a huge fan of kind of your- where you came from and where you started to invest from and that was in the services industry. As you mentioned, you were working in the roofer area and we had a good long conversation about that because I’m a big fan of this space. I work in it every day. Well, not every day, maybe four days a week. But yeah I’m a big fan of that and I think it’s that end tactile product that you’re building that you can see, “Hey man, I did that,” or “Hey, I worked on this and it’s really cool,” but I- what is the… what’s the I guess the theme about what you were doing and how did that transfer back to how you work with startups today? And I know there’s got to be a lot of hustle in there that kind of really ties it in and pulls it together, but what are the things that you can take from that learning that really exemplify your efforts but also get people on the other side really understanding where you’re coming from? Because it’s kind of a different thing you’re not coming from a bank, you’re coming from a service base, and you’re saying, “Hey man, I’ve been able to create some great things, and build up, and now I’m really expanding it,” but what do you take that back to founders and how does that help them?

Colin:
Yeah, it’s- I tend to see the world in principles and not rules. And so, the principles that are like that are the same in a roofing business which is a service-based business are going to be the same inside like a.. pardon me… a tech based business or any kind of new business. You still gotta have sales, we’ve still got a leading. Still gonna execute the world rises and falls on leadership, families, communities, countries, municipalities, and of course businesses, and so if you can’t lead, you’re not going to be a good founder. If you can’t execute, if you can’t pivot, and if you can’t sell, I don’t care if you can build a good product that’s great, can you sell it? Can you market it? Do you understand there’s more tools available that you don’t have? You don’t have all the answers, you don’t have all the tools, can you go ask for help? Can you go get mentorship? Do you know how to get in front of mentors? And that’s what I got. I got in front of mentors. I asked for help. I– we as a team were really, I think we were crazy successful. So you know, that division has gone on to be like twelve and a half million and for a roofing company, it’s not a small thing and I know what it’s like to scale up. I know what it’s like to, so we started winning projects you know, I remember what I was excited to do in my first 25 000 projects. I had to both win work and execute the work I had to both hire and fire. So I was doing like I was doing everything. I built three of the four divisions so or started you know, roughly speaking. So you know when we were won our first fifty thousand dollars and then our first hundred like six figures. Well, now we’re going to 100 thousand, now we’re doing a 500, 000 project, and then you’re doing a million dollar project. And I know what it’s like to go through that process and to learn your way through an industry and all industries have kind of gatekeepers, and just there’s there is processes in every industry if you’re like blazing trails. There’s still these principles that are the same in my world and the same in their world and I can speak to that. And I’m really good at creating belief. I believe in people and I can see what is next and so that’s the founders world I connect with them on that. And so those are the things that are transferable is there like it’s a slower world though construction. So in that regard it doesn’t scale the same way. It doesn’t it’s it is like it is one for one you put in you put an hour you get an hour out. It’s not like, oh you put an hour and you build a product that people can use for forever. Does not work like that. There’s so- there’s lots of differences as well.

Jeffery:
I love it man. You put in, you said, a bunch of different things there that resonate but also I want to kind of explore and I’m going to take what you said and dive this edgy into kind of like a funnel.

Colin:
Sure.
Jeffery:
So you took a company like you said, you started off with this first 25, 000 dollar job and then you kept building on it. So where did you take- you got yourself up to 7.5 million, I believe you said earlier and then the company kind of executed it from there to go even bigger to the 12.5 now, so to get to that 7.5 million and this is what I really want to explore is that, outsider there’s a ton of hustle in this but you mentioned a couple of keywords: team, execution, and focus. So how much of those things really matter to this early stage company? Like they’re saying to you like, “Hey, man. My team of two are trying to build this company and can you invest in this Colin? What do you think you can do?” So how much is team and execution really important? And then what order do you put him in focus? Because you’re- you said roofing-

Colin:
Yeah.

Jeffery:
-And to people they probably were thinking, “Oh well, we could build our own shingle. We could hire teams to go and put roofs on, we could build the walls, we could actually do the cement concrete floors.” What are you telling companies when they’re doing this? Like if you’re rating those three things, are you looking at and saying hold on put the brakes on. This is what you’re good at. This is what you’re gonna focus on five years only roofs, five people on the team, you’re gonna grow to ten, how are you making that work for them?

Colin:
There’s a few things. So for one, in my world service based industry, there’s a super power called answering your phone. I can’t like you would, it blows my mind that you’re a project manager, general manager and you’re unavailable when it’s your number one job is to be a communicator. Like you are a headquarters for communication for what’s going on, what’s coming in, and people want to get a hold of you. So you got to be available that is number one part of it. And then you go into the, so that might be a functional leadership or whatever. I’m not sure what the.. what you’d associate it with but and then you got to be sold out. So like I made a lot of sacrifices I was absolutely sold out. I carried that flag at that company like it was mine. So I had that “oh you hear a lot of people” kind of give advice said like act like an owner and eventually you’ll become an owner, or act like a principal and eventually become a principal. That’s what naval says and I fully 1000 percent agree with it. One of the reasons I, you know, the inflection of my left that company they had asked me they had actually asked me to buy into the company. So like that is true that when you act like an owner you typically get treated like an owner. And so I had ownership mentality from the gecko. I am an entrepreneur by nature and so even though I didn’t get paid like one, I thought like one, I got paid well but and so I made a lot of sacrifices. I executed, I worked Saturdays, I worked Fridays, I did whatever I could to keep my promises to my customers or my team because part of we have employees part of the- as your service based company part of your part of the promise is that you’re going to work on Monday or Tuesday or next Friday or next month for your guys. And so part of what kept me driven was making sure all the people I had promised employment to that I had worked for them and if they wanted over time I had overtime for them. And then I continued to build constraints or systems so that they would be.. they would tilt towards the employee. So that I could train and retain my employees because one of the things in a service company is if you are hiring really competent people, they could go across the street and buy a truck and a ladder and become your competition. And so if you don’t make your- if you’re not thinking through the lens of “how do I retain this exceptional?” because at the end of the day, I can buy the same materials as another roofing company. So we’re really in the skilled labor business. If you don’t understand what your core business is, you’re just, you’re missing it. You’re not keeping the main thing the main thing. And so I- we had that lens, we had that HR. We have really robust HR policies with really robust HR hiring and firing and all that stuff. And you get really deep into that conversation but and that’s a lot about leadership in people. But at the end of the day, they’ve still got to keep the main thing, the main thing is that guys got to have work. Like if they don’t have work, they are they’re insecure and they’re looking for someone for something else. And so I was really good at that and I can sell. So I was constantly winning work and keeping my promises and that’s the biggest thing people want. Doesn’t matter at that 25, 000 or the million dollar project. These are still project managers. They’re still people and they want someone to rely on, they want someone that says “I’m going to be there Tuesday.” You’re going to be there Tuesday or something goes on you tell them Monday, “Hey, I can’t come tomorrow because of x..,” and you just tell them the truth, and there is a lot of nefarious conversations, and communication, a lot of excuses people hate that. People see through it. They won’t call you on it because they don’t want to go through the process of like you know, oh now it’s a conflict but tell the truth. And that obviously applies to what we’re talking about. You know, most of these angel investors are very competent BS readers and so they know when you’re talking BS. they know what’s going on and founders think they’re good, they’re the smartest one in the room, and it’s like usually investors know when people are being undisciplined in their language, undisciplined what they’re communicating, and undisciplined in what their promises are. And investors are going to see right through that and they might, they’re not going to say it obviously through your BS because they could be wrong. They know that too but yeah being authentic, and being real, being honest is a big deal and just when you can’t actually, you just tell people, “I can’t execute because of a..,” don’t say it because a but a is embarrassing. Tell the truth.

Jeffery:
I love that. I love the, you the responder review we did where you know, I think we were mentioning before where the he used a ton of quotes like ridiculous amount of quotes and I was like “Man, I can’t keep up with this.” But you’ve got a lot of great lines like “be available,” “answer your call,” “answer your phone”. Like these things are little things that you don’t think about but man, are they so damn important and crucial to running your own company and-

Colin:
Right.

Jeffery:
Carrying that over like that experience you have and being able to step up. I love the fact that you said you know, act like you’re an owner because one day you’re gonna be one. I’m paraphrasing but yeah, the more that you put yourself in that position, the more you take accountability, the more that you’re gonna step up and those things carry through as an entrepreneur and as a startup business. So I can just see that you’re taking all that learning and you’re putting it into these companies that when you’re talking with them, you’re working with the ownership, you’re trying to figure out are they going to be able to deliver these types of things? Am I going to be able to make an investment and know that this company’s doing all these things and they’re not just wasting time and not getting anywhere? So I think those things so much resonate all the way across the funnel or across any individual that’s going to start or run a business. So I think that’s brilliant. I love it.

Colin:
The language we use is, we use you know, iterate. You know, “iterate, iterate” which is like, it’s just practice and so what you’re talking about, how you’re phrasing it is- it’s like practice and iterate being an owner because there’s developers out there right now that are you know, saving up or working on their thinking. But if you’re like, “No, I’m an employee. I’m going home at five o’clock.” It’s like well you’re gonna take that habit and that’s thinking, and that mentality into your business, and we’re gonna sniff it out. Pure and simple.

Jeffery:
Yeah. They’re gonna know and it’s interesting to see that because when I worked my day back in Loblaws when I was a product manager if you will, for all the ecommerce platforms. I would, I’d work 12, 14, 18 hours a day, seven days a week because I loved it.

Colin:
Right.

Jeffery:
Something I was getting was so intense but I had accountability to all the customers that were buying from our products from our sites, and I just wanted to make sure that I got their pictures there for Christmas or that I- whatever I had to do. And it made a difference, right? Because people know what I think, right?

Colin:
Which is how an owner thinks, right? Yes, you’re right but that’s how an owner thinks. They care about their customer, they care about executed, they want to be there, they want to serve from the ground up, they don’t want to- it’s not about my customer service but let me serve with my customers and that’s an orientation. That is definitely like a mental orientation and it’s- you got it wrong if you’re a customer. You’re trying to.. yeah obviously.

Jeffery:
Yeah. “So answer your phone, man.” I love it. Right, so I love that line. I don’t want too many people to hear that because I do get a lot of calls and I can’t answer it all the time and I feel guilty. But it’s also because I think in time you have to shape the direction you want to go, and you mentioned a lot of that before. So now you’ve kind of like moved this learning into kind of the new things you’re working on. You’re building properties here, you’ve really kind of expanded that same structure that you started with, and taken it to a whole new level which is awesome, and you continue to drive that forward. So now maybe what’s your biggest focus on with the investment side? Where you guys are making investments, is there a certain- is there a thesis that you’re focused on? You want only this vertical, this type of company, is it more open field on this? And is there any key things that you look for when you’re making investments?

Colin:
So our investment thesis is not super narrow. There’s no verticals. There’s things I like and prefer because obviously, things I understand, so I like construction products but in general they’re not a ton of scale so you’re just manufacturing. And being in the industry, those are super slow things to change. Adoption is very difficult because the people installing them. Again going back to that skilled labor, these guys do not like changing things the way they do it, and managers do not want to fight with their employees to you know, to real, to learn on the fly. So there’s like there’s all these like real things that are very hard to sort of- I like construction. I understand, it not a lot of scale. I like, I love because I’m in real estate. I love SAS because or RAS like one of my- our investments is in robotics and so I love that monthly recurring revenue. It matches commercial real estate like I like- I have so I feel like it’s kind of my richer cousin or something, so I like that. We’re not agnostic on values. We like businesses that contribute good to society or are perceived good to society, so we’re not going to invest in just good businesses, or just good administrative tools even if they are good at investments. So and then we are trying to do obviously, like everybody else 10x and early stage so series, pre-seed, seed and series A. Although my first investment was actually probably a series E or something that was after down round. Long story but so yeah pretty narrow. 25 million and under is what our evaluations are otherwise 10x is hard to get into after that.

Jeffery:
No, I agree with that. You mentioned one thing too, which I want to kind of go back to only because it follows in with your thesis and you have got a good sized thesis on what companies are going after PCC under 25 million. So we kind of, the two of us kind of work a bit together in that sense, but one thing you mentioned which I think I’d really like to explore here is, “I can see what’s next.” And I think that, that line is huge because a lot of people can’t see what’s next. A lot of founders can’t see it but investors also maybe they pretend to see what’s next, but they’re very tunnel vision too, right? Because we know what we know, and we don’t tend to be generalists, and we don’t tend to know much. So how do you kind of work with the startup to be able to see what that is? What’s that vision of where you’re going? Because I think sometimes we put a dart out there and say I’m going towards that but it might be so unrealistic and so unachievable that it depresses you along the way and you don’t make it there, so if you have this vision and you’re able to see that, how do you get others to see it and drive them in that same direction?

Colin:
Yeah I don’t think- I’m not the one selling shares, so I’m not you know, I’m not the one trying to raise a fund. So then it really comes down- so it’s more like do I believe this person? Do I believe their narrative? Do I believe that they’re gonna execute? and do I believe that the problem they’re solving is actually a problem. There’s some problems that are like they’re not problems and your solution is a non-solution to a non-problem. So I don’t believe, I don’t believe your thesis on your problem. I don’t believe you’re- so how can I possibly believe anything else, and then if I don’t believe that you’ve even identified the right problem and you’re asking for money, that’s going to be a very difficult place for us to open our wallet. We’re not going to be you know, rude about that or anything. I’m not going to communicate that but that’s obviously how I’m going to process that because not every problem is a problem or you’ve misconstrued it or it’s in the wrong direction. So just because some laws are changing, doesn’t mean everything is. Yeah so, I look to be converted to becoming a believer for these companies. Do I believe your narrative? Do I believe that you’re- I want to become a believer in this person. I want to become a believer and they’ll either convert me or they won’t.

Jeffery:
So does that kind of get you that long-term vision then? So you’re actually visioning where they’re going to go and then you decide from there “You know, what I could make an investment. I could see them getting to this point and they’re not saturating the market. They’re learning a lot.” Yeah, I think this is something investable, and does it go to that being able to vision out yourself where they’re going to be?

Colin:
So I’ll- I want to tell a quick story and hopefully this answers. So I was looking at a cryptocurrency that wants to tokenize real estate. I think that kind of stuff is absolutely inevitable. I’m in real estate, it make sense, it adds liquidity. It’s kind of a no-brainer. You look at this defy stuff and I am not educated enough to have a intelligent conversation but I understand that monetizing around the world is. Single currency is just is literally probably inevitable. There are reasons to hold back on them and to have sovereignty and all these other things that play into it but tokenizing real estate makes sense. But when you set up a- so that’s so you’re aligned with the problem. Identify the problem but your solution is we’re gonna set up tokenization and it’s cost you nine percent on your real estate. And you’re like, well you are- you’re literally just transferred the problem with brokerages into your site. You’ve shrunk it down to two years like your time horizons for paybacks and stuff like that. Well that does not add up to the time horizons that people real estate are worth thinking 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years if we’re holding real estate. These things don’t add up your platform, your solution, it actually sucks. I would never use your platform and so I- so hopefully that would be how I see the future. I don’t- I see the future going tokenization in that seg category. I don’t think their solution- I don’t believe it. I believe they’ve identified the right problem. I think their solution is a money grab and would never use the solution myself and someone else will come along and do it better and do it cheaper and do it faster. And so I think that –

Jeffery:
That is, you’re right. That’s a vision, right? That’s being able to see what’s coming and saying you know, what based on my experience, I can see where this is going and if you don’t have that experience then you tend to just not be able to vision it and then you’re just throwing money at a problem and thinking maybe they’ll solve it. It sounds right. It’s kind of like someone pitching you and they’re going super technical, and you’re sitting there thinking this doesn’t need to be so technical. I know what you’re talking about and you’re actually just trying to get money out of me, and this makes no sense like your solution is actually worse and I think you’re actually going to make it harder for people to do anything. So I’m out.

Colin:
Right, yeah I agree. Yeah I think back to that word narrative. I remember I want to hear the story. I don’t really want to carry the jargon. It’s like you either can do your job or you can’t. That’s should be somewhere in your resume. Not- you’re not gonna wild me with with jargon because if you lose me, I’ll glaze over and it’s like-

Jeffery:
Get it over with. (Laughs)

Colin:
Yeah and that’s why I’m a roofer right? There’s parts I just don’t have the tech stack knowledge to know what’s going on and if I have to stop you 40 times to ask questions, it’s not efficient. So you gotta you know, you got to know your audience when you’re being a storyteller. You can go if someone might just geek out with you like when I’m roofing I can talk to roofers and just geek out because there’s a ton of chemistry in the in the commercial world and I could just- I could get into the poly methamphetamines. And all these you know, whatever I can get really technical. No one cares. No one cares about jargon. It is jargon and it’s word jargon for a reason. Don’t- people don’t care. Geek out with the people that are geeking out with you. I’m an investor so I care about you, I care about your narrative, and I care about the problem you’re trying to solve and can- do you have the right solution care- I don’t care about the jargon.

Jeffery:
I like that. So now you’ve kind of- you’ve done a lot of things, you’re working on the new build, what’s keeping you jailed or moving forward? What’s the thing that’s exciting you the most? Is there a shift in the market that’s getting you really pumped up and you’re trying to move in that direction? Or are you just sticking with the real estate side? Because you guys have been doing that well and you’re expanding and growing with what’s kind of been that new narrative, if you will, for yourselves?

Colin:
So what’s interesting is how much the nomenclature is not jargon. But like there is becoming this new better awareness of kind of angel investing in outside investing private equity whatever. Coming into like just normal people, so what I tell people on in angel investing. It’s actually opening these other opportunities that are more connected to my real estate than they are inside my- our angel investing. So that’s really neat we’re actually able looking at selling a large chunk of our land and taking a- taking an equity position and I would have never had that opportunity if I wasn’t an angel investor. So that’s pretty unique and that’s like selling- yeah so, I love angel investing. It’s something where I probably takes up still 10 to 20 hour of my week. I work a lot of hours. I love working but I could see myself going fuller time as I ease into it but this is not how I pay the bills yet. I’m not a venture capitalist. I still pay my bills through real estate and yeah so…

Jeffery:
That’s cool. So there’s been some good crossover and learnings from working in this space or meeting different individuals that have kind of opened up a lot of opportunity, and now you’re kind of progressing through and making bigger things happen.

Colin:
Yeah my mentor- I’m lucky to have a mentor in investing and you know, I get to bounce off like every idea and when I was a project manager, my boss was like across the hall, so I could just get up walk across the hallway and ask him questions and he had a ton of experience, and growing his own businesses. And you know, funny enough his brother is on Dragon’s Den right now, so you know I got some pretty good insights into how the world works and some bigger business. So having mentorship like helps and it also by being in this you get this investment thesis that gets keeps rounded out, and so I get this like broader view of what goes on inside businesses, what a venture capital really is, what a founder believes, because founders are the ones who are going to move the world forward. And so you want to know how they think, you want to know how investors think because that’s that ecosystem that is what’s driving the world forward. So I think that’s- there’s so much leadership stuff that drips in through that and I’m so into getting you know, accumulating wisdom, accumulating knowledge, and being on the leading edge of leadership and ideas is a big deal. So for personally, so I’m not sure if that’s a good answer or not but that’s-

Jeffery:
No, that is and I love the fact that you’re focusing in on that learning and the leadership side because when you start to do that it transfers over the companies you invest in. You start to push some of that knowledge or at least updating them, and getting them a little bit in that same note, and I think that makes a big difference. And you mentioned with the mentorship side, is it something that you it- in coach with a lot of the startups that you work with and invest in? And you put your time into saying, “Hey, I’m here whatever you guys need. Let’s brainstorm,” like that kind of thing?

Colin:
No, actually I’m more of a I think the value I bring is I’m pretty relational and so it’s very lonely I think for a lot of founders. I don’t think. So I think my thing that I’ve seem to bring value is I’m kind of- I see my investment as like purchasing a ticket to someone’s journey, personal. And once I’ve made that you know, that placement, that investment, I don’t really expect to return. I understand what you know, category of risk we’re in and obviously, I believe in the investments we’ve placed but I don’t expect a return. And I really just get to see this person’s journey and so I’m a cheerleader. And so because I’m aligned like that, I get to know these founders and get to there’s a friendship I think that evolves. And I get to when they’re lonely I get to be I just get to be a friend and get to be there. I’m not sure and obviously there’s gonna be strategy and conversations and stuff like that but they get to share their lumps and their rewards and that seems to be where I bring value. That’s what goes back to you know, helping create belief because when you’re lonely, those are the things that start to atrophy belief in yourself, belief in the solution, and I think-

Jeffery:
They’re doing the right things, right? If you know you’re on the right track and sometimes you get to a thicker spot, and they’ll bounce some ideas off and you have a good conversation, and it kind of helps to rejuvenate your mission, if you will.

Colin:
Yeah, I think that’s accurate because going back to I believe everything rises and falls on leadership. So everything we talk about is a leadership and personal growth. When these- we’re having these personal conversations. So I’m able to pinpoint or not necessarily like that. That accuracy of that word but I’m able to just talk and encourage, and that’s what we need as humans. These are humans that are running these companies. These are humans that are it’s- just like it’s a human that has a project at twenty five thousand dollars. It’s a human that is running a project at one point five million dollars. It’s a human who’s running a million dollar company. It’s a human that’s running a billion dollar company. So everybody wants human connection. Steve Jobs spent the last like week of his life watching movies with his friends. He wasn’t planning out his biography or relieving this legacy, was connecting with people. It’s dying and all he wants to do is connect with his friends, so we all want connection and I get that. It doesn’t really translate into investing but in relationally, it’s certainly translated and I’m able to have these conversations to just encourage, to encourage, to encourage and I love that. I love that if you’re my buddy, you’re my friend on a personal level, that’s what I’m doing. I’m challenging you and I’m encouraging you. That’s kind of that’s the space I fill because I believe in people, I just I believe wholeheartedly in people.

Jeffery:
I love it. I love it and I feel we’re very aligned on a lot of these things because we’re part of the journey right? And I like that you brought that up that you’re buying a ticket and you’re on the journey and you know, what if the ticket doesn’t sell at the end or it’s just a ticket that you can put in a frame that looks good. But you know, to me that’s part of that journey and I’m happy to be part of that journey, and see where you guys netted out. But always the biggest cheerleader on the bench, trying to make sure that the companies that we bought the ticket to that they’re gonna just take off, or they’re gonna do well, or they’re gonna be happy, and they’re growing their companies, and they’re meeting the right people. And all we can do as the cheerleaders is keep making connections and trying to help them be successful, being here when they need to be but being there for them. I think is a big thing because we all feel that there’s that time where I’m in the thick of it. No one wants to be there to help me because I need money or I need something else, right?

Colin:
No, you’re right and contacts would change, if I was running the fund and I was raising other people’s money, there would be a different level of due diligence and there’d be a different level of expectation and holding people’s feet to the fire. That because you’d be more of a true leadership position as opposed to principles of leadership you’re building people up it’s like “No. This is, this you’re more- I expect more now that would be that might look different even though I’d be still personable about it.” But I’m not raising. I don’t, I’m not running somebody else’s fund. I’m running my fund and my partners, and so this is our money and we get to decide how we orient ourselves in the world. And if I was running someone else’s money, there’s a greater level of responsibility that comes with that. And so there where you hear these other things breaking down, where people want to make sure they get every nickel of value that they can from every transaction they have, I understand that mentality too. It’s just not how I approach. I have the luxury of purchasing tickets and getting to go on this journey with these people. That’s a luxury. I don’t think a fund has that luxury they get to, they have much more accountability to their investors and so they should.

Jeffery:
They do, but we can still use the same mentality that you’re using because I think that that’s a great way of doing it because you can create a little bit of pressure to get them moving forward, but at the same time being able to sit in the vehicle and ride along, and be able to share updates and experiences, and bring new people in when they need it. That was also part of that journey that helped them grow. So there’s kind of two sides: there’s metrics and there’s accountability to the the funds, and the dollars and the people investing. But the other side is humanizing it and creating a journey that you can be part of that you can be excited about, and knowing when to jump in and help, versus knowing when to sit back, watch, and take it in. and those are two big variable differences that make a huge difference in a startup because you do need to need to know when and when not to. Because sometimes they’re doing really well, they don’t need you bugging but they need you to support in other areas. So you figure that out as you go. So it’s a really cool concept but I love the fact that you’ve got the opportunity to work it at the angle that you need to make it fit with you and your partner on how you grow that opportunity. But you know what, from now we’re going to transition into the speed round.

Colin:
Okay.

Jeffery:
So far, I’m not sure I’m gonna remember all of your lines but man you got a lot of good lines. So there’s a lot of good material there. I’m gonna try and use some of these.

Colin:
That’s all I got, unless it’s in marriage. That’s all I got. I got like six lines and that’s it.

Jeffery:
Oh man there’s lots. There’s more and six here like I could write them all out. He’s got at least a half page so it’s good. But no lots of lots of great things man and I think once you- because you’ve spent a lot of time doing all these different things, you start to build up things that work and patterns and what it found. It seems like you’ve got a lot of things that allow you to keep hustling forward and I think that’s brilliant.

Colin:
Thanks.

Jeffery:
Some of these things we’ve already talked to but because it’s the rapid round. I will hit some of them but you’re welcome to scan over them or hit them again. So, all right, let me see. First one, what’s your favorite part of investing?

Colin:
Yeah. You- most people say working with founders and I get that but if I am honest, it’s the learning that I get. I get so much value out of this so far. I gotta say it’s amazing how much value I get out of this personally from what I learned. and so you, I like the friendships with the founders and the connecting but number one, it’s gotta- I’m honest. It’s personal growth stuff.

Jeffery:
Love it. How many companies do you invest in per year?

Colin:
Probably, right now it’s three to four. I could probably dial that up again if i was going for fuller time in this but right now, this isn’t how I pay the bills. So..

Jeffery:
No, I love it. That’s great, yeah. You’re in line with the world of investing man. This is good. Any- you mentioned a bit about this, but verticals you like to focus on?

Colin:
Yeah and nothing really jumps out. Nothing. I like SAS, so I died. That is if I would had to focus on something that if I was driven into one vertical. I’d be picking SAS all day long. It’s a service based, you know, internet company. It’s still service at the end of the day, so I do understand that part.

Jeffery:
Okay, very well. Very good, any due diligence requirements you look for before making a commitment?

Colin:
Not really. I like to- there’s a little thing in there, I like to make sure we have a pitch deck and a pdf. So if we say no now, but we circle back I want to see that they have the tracking milestones there’s some software nowadays that a few com founders use, and I would ask them to steer clear of that where they have. So they can update it. So like if they’re- if the world changes, they can change their milestones to tweak their new narrative and I want to see the narrative have milestones, and then if we circle back in six months they’ve hit some of them. Not like they arbitrarily lower the bar and then they hit that bar. So yeah. So that’s basically, it’s very basic. The rest, I’ll just ask it as I need it.

Jeffery:
Okay, any timelines you put on investments from start to finish?

Colin:
In what regards?

Jeffery:
You start talking to a company, you’ll make an investment within three months or six months, like is there a timeline?

Colin:
No, I typically- we act fast we’re.. I don’t think I’ve done due diligence longer than three weeks. I mean there was- we have done. One was six months but that was more of a circle back. It’s like, “Hey, it’s not a- no, it’s not yet. Please do these you know… here’s you know, what we’re thinking,” and they won us over and then we placed an investment six, seven months later during COVID. So yeah.

Jeffery:
I like it very good. Any materials outside of like the legal side of things, is there anything else that you really like to prepare and have part of your due diligence from you know, you deep dive into the CEO or the team that’s supporting the product, is there anything that you really like to see that would help de-risk you guys from making an investment?

Colin:
It’s lit- I think there, it’s the listening in the interview. I’m pretty heavy on the communication and interview stuff. So I’m looking for- I’m looking to become a believer and so I will decide that pretty quick. That does not take long. That’s- so it is more of a deep dive into the conversation and then me reflecting on that conversation. That’s my big takeaways because I’m going to parse through people and things pretty quickly. I’m going to google their pitch deck. I’m going to google their leaders, I’m going to do that stuff and along the way try and put the puzzle together without going too deep. There’s not- we’re our checks are not big enough to require you know, to be in order to be found they’re friendly, cutting checks between 10 and 25, 000 you start taking up hours of their time. It’s like I think that there’s a- that’s one I’m oriented to what is right, just, and fair, and that doesn’t seem fair to me. Our check sizes aren’t big enough to require due diligence at these crazy levels where we’re- I just don’t think it’s right. So we try to give people very quick answers and not take up too much time, and I think it’s just wrong to do that, to be honest.

Jeffery:
I like it. Do you lead rounds?

Colin:
Again same philosophy. Being that we are a smaller check sizes, I don’t think it’s right to the next investors to take our terms. I don’t think I’m sophisticated enough to set terms. I’m sophisticated enough to understand evaluation but I’m not sophisticated enough to set terms. My partner would be but given our check sizes, not appropriate for us to cut to lead rounds.

Jeffery:
Okay. Any preferred shares or types of investments you look for or avoid?

Colin:
Nothing that we would avoid and we typically take what people are offering. Although I will if we’re gonna invest. I will want to dig deeper into the valuation. You know, what the founder believes, what they believe about themselves, what they believe about the future, what they believe about the value of my money, with the value of their time, is all codified inside their evaluation. There’s a ton of information inside that valuation. Yesterday for instance, a regional airline had a reasonable valuation, 15 million but it’s based on revenue like five years from now. So I’m like, “On five years, you will have probably that revenue perhaps, but today you got nothing. So your valuation is wrong and so that tells me that you’re looking for fast turnaround or you’re going to buy out other investors, or the first like I don’t know what you’re doing but you’re out to lunch.” And so, it’s an- it’s probably a never actually in that case because codified inside that is you do not, you don’t value my money even though it is only twenty-five thousand dollars when you don’t have twenty-five thousand dollars. Twenty-five thousand dollars is a lot of money. Yeah, so..

Jeffery:
That’s good. That’s a good insight on how to evaluate when someone’s coming to you on how they value money, how they value your money, and where they’re sitting. That’s Good. I like that. Yep on the- do you take board seats? Do you reinvest?

Colin:
We would. I haven’t taken a board seat. I might take an observer seat again back to my kind of my, you know, my personal knowledge base probably isn’t deep enough in too many things. I want the domain of expertise in order to provide real value. I don’t want to pad my, you know my resume to get look at how many boards I want. It’s not something I’m into. Again, that doesn’t seem right, just, or fair. So- but I would go on a board seat. There are situations inside a construct like this construction stuff where I do have the main expertise and I would bring value beyond just being a cheerleader, so then in that case I would consider taking his seat. It’s come up a few twice and said no both times.

Jeffery:
All right, I got a company that you need to talk with that you’ll be a great fit for.

Colin:
Cool.

Jeffery:
His name’s Gary. Remind me of it, just so I’m throwing that in there. All right, so okay. Cool. So, outside of giving money to a company, is there any other things that you like to bring to that company to help them out? And you mentioned communication just as a feeder there, is there anything else that you like to push your companies to do or that you provide them with outside of just funding?

Colin:
Yeah, so trying to keep encouragement out of it because that’s- I do provide that and belief. I do have a small, it’s not big but I do if we invest in something. I share it with a few other guys, a few other fun managers that I’ve met in my rookie experience these last couple years. And just say, “Hey, I invest in this. Wanna take a look?” because we’ve liked each other’s investments. It’s not this big network but it’s a network, it’s growing. So that’s about it. If they need specific things, I’m really good at problem solving. So then if they have like they get stuck, I’m really gonna go. If they’re humble and coachable enough, hungry enough to ask for help then I can help them. I’m even though it might not be my expertise if they’re like thinking about sales or how to meet people. That’s the fight I definitely can do.

Jeffery:
Brilliant, I love it. All right. Rapid fire round is done. We’re gonna jump into.. there’s like two more questions and then I’m gonna hit some personal stuff.

Colin:
Okay.

Jeffery:
I’m learning to do personal things like personal questions. I’m not the best at it but I’ve got a couple that I can ream off, and maybe in show 90, I’ll feel comfortable enough to actually ask a real comfortable, uncomfortable question for myself to someone but that’s a long way from now. So in the time you’ve been working with startups and investing, and from your work experience and your building experience, is there a story, where you’ve kind of and you’ve mentioned a couple stories which is awesome, is there a story that kind of really exemplifies what it takes to be an entrepreneur or what it takes to be a startup? You lived through something or you saw something when you made an investment and a company was like on the brink of success and then they failed, or they were on the brink of failure and then they just did something and it turned into success. Is there anything that just kind of really is amazing and you just gotta share the story because it was just pretty cool story to hear?

Colin:
Yeah. I can tell a quick story which I think is about the second company invested in. it’s called Cyberdontics. So you’re looking, I believe you’re looking again everything rises and falls on leadership. You’re looking for humble. You might use the word coachable, I use word humble. I define humble, you know, humbleness is like you are put other people’s first but you actually do have confidence. You understand who you are and inside that you are humble. And you gotta be hungry, and you- and that creates drive and incentive all that stuff. And so, our second investment we were I was at a annual investors for over in Vancouver, and one of the presenters was this kind of hippie looking guy. You know, big beard, big hair, slick that’s like kind of weird looking but he had a nice suit on. And his pitch was he was a dentist and he had people the the crowd was having a hard time understanding him because I think he- because he looked different, and as he was getting what went into the question mark you know, he said- I you know it was very touched on his story very gently but he said, “I, you know, I own a few almost in passing that I own four dentist offices that are rolled up into one.” And then he went on to share you know, this new idea that he had and which is creating using robotics to do crown procedures. And I don’t want to go into all the other details. And the guys were growing them on valuations and all this stuff, and he’s working with them. He’s like, “Whoa whoa, guys whatever you want. We’re going to work with you.” And guys were like spitting mad and I was like what this guy is working with you. He’s humble. He’s here engaging with 50 of you investors. He’s in the lines and he’s doing great. He’s doing fantastic. You guys can’t see it. And so I think we’re the only ones that invested in that round from that event. And a few months later, they were in YC, they tripled their valuation, they’ve got seven and a half million lois. They got more investments. They’ve like- they’ve raised in they raised during COVID. They are slam, they’re the most exciting company I’ve seen in let’s say of- let’s say I’ve looked at 130-140 companies. Most excited we’ve seen except for rocket ship companies that was probably the most exciting. This was the one that I.. if I could look back on the last 140 companies, I looked at whatever it is, this is the one-on-one investment and I did and everybody missed it because they couldn’t see through the anger in the room. And so they couldn’t see through that he looked a little different. Meanwhile, when he you know, cut his hair and shaved the beard, he looks like you actually he’s got the- looks great! So you know, never go with herd mentality and-

Jeffery:
Unless you’re directing herd mentality but yes I agree.

Colin:
Yeah so man. I can’t tell you how much it means to be to believe in people with what they’re saying and he was probably more successful than half those guys in the room. He already had a here. He had four dental practices. So what what are you missing? Can you- that already tells you that the guy can lead, the guy can grow, the guy can manage, and he’s here working another project. Well he’s got that means he can hire managers and delegate how could you not possibly see that. That’s all clear by the fact that he’s working this new idea and he answers someone in the room. That he still has his four practices and that should tell you everything he needs to know that he’s bored and he’s looking for another opportunity to grow and build. He’s like not even 40 yet and all that stuff turned out to be true. And it should have been obvious by that one little fact, you should have been able to dig into the fact that I have four dental practices and I got a manager. You’re like, “Well, that tells me everything I need to know about you as a leader now, do you have integrity? Do you have hunger? Looks like it.” And why wasn’t that obvious to everybody else’s room because it gets they got stuck on valuation. Because it’s like that’s the narrative, there’s the they miss the narrative piece and I think they missed it big so…

Jeffery:
Well, you- it also goes back to your view of I can see what’s next. So you were able to see through all of that on his vision of where he was going and he didn’t let all of the other little crap that everybody was nitpicking on. And I see that 100 percent with following you with you is that a lot of the times, we’ll see like someone that’s got a bad pitch but.

Colin:
Right.

Jeffery:
It doesn’t mean that they don’t have a great business.

Colin:
That’s right.

Jeffery:
I’m not going to invest in you because you can’t pitch. No, I’m gonna invest in you because you can hustle and you work hard, and you see the vision, you see where you’re going. Those other things, they’re just- they’re kind of like when you’re building a house they’re the end goal is to put your touch ups and to go to that setup. But the rest of it, you got to build the nuts and bolts of it and get everything laid out, so you can do the finishings. The finishings are the great touch but they’re the end result. You got to put everything else before that and he’s building everything else before that and you’re looking at it saying, “Oh, this can’t be good enough because it doesn’t have the right finishes on it.” “Well, I’m sorry but when that base is done you’re going to have one hell of a kick-ass home and then you’re going to have some touch-ups and you’re going to have that finishings. This is going to be rocket.” You can learn those touch-ups after, so let’s figure out how to get the rest of it done. So kudos to you for catching that, that’s awesome. Great story. I like that. All right, now we’re going to go to something a little bit more personal, all right.

Colin:
Fire away.

Jeffery:
On this one, here so first question is, what’s your favorite sports team?

Colin:
Oh, Vancouver Canucks man. All day. It’s not even close.

Jeffery:
My brother’s favorite team is Vancouver Canucks and I’m not a leaf. I’m an islander fan but I’ll give it to them. I do like the hustle Vancouver’s always provided on their teams. They’re maybe not the best at picking goalies but so far the wrestling team has been pretty good.

Colin:
Oh man, oh man. You’re gonna get me started fired up for real now. (Laughs)

Jeffery:
I know, am I allowed to say that but I’m pretty sure they don’t have the best choice on goalies. (Laughs)

Colin:
No, they’re not. I’m not even going to get into it. I get oh man. Is there a hang up button? We’re saying a Button (Laughs)

Jeffery:
(Laughs) Okay, so outside of that the next question is, favorite movie and what character would you play in the movie?

Colin:
Oh man. Two favorite movies..probably Interstellar. Interstellar..Matthew McConaughey is who I would be my favorite- freaking line in all of movie is when- have you seen it?

Jeffery:
Yup yup.

Colin:
So you know, like the world hangs in the balance, his daughter is at home. You know, she’s about to figure out the thing but like it looks like her world’s ending and now, they’re out there Matt Damon has just fired that you know, he’s the airlock. The airlock explodes and now these two ships are spinning in off the directions and one’s able to crash in the atmosphere. And so like humanity hangs in the bounds. It’s insanity and he drives over to it you, got tars, the one robot in case the other robot and they’re like- they are doing the math in their head, right? They’re freaking robots and they go “You can’t do that. You can’t do that talk, you can’t do that. It’s impossible,” that he says “I will, it’s necessary.” And I like it, gives me goosebumps, it gives me shivers, and he goes and does what’s impossible. And I love, I can’t tell you for some reason. I love that while, so I love that movie is, it’s a love story between a father and his daughter. Most stories in Hollywood are love stories between, you know a man and a woman, it’s romantic. This love is as someone with who had at the time when it came out, I had four daughters. My first four kids were girls and so that’s a very powerful narrative.

Jeffery:
Yeah.

Colin:
That- it’s just powerful that that’s what transcends reality, gravity all these things that love is what was perceptive and what love is what saves them.

Jeffery:
Oh, that’s amazing man. “I will, it’s necessary.” See man you’ve got a ton of lines. Pulling them out from everywhere. I love it. Well, it’s brilliant man and I think that it’s been awesome talking with you. I enjoy the fact that we were able to go through this little journey, if you will. Great little narrative but you provided a lot of insight and a lot of learning from two perspectives which is an investor perspective and of course, being an entrepreneur. And we don’t get that a lot because usually, you’re just an investor or whatever. We always forget that there’s an entrepreneur in there or there’s a business person. So I’m super glad that we got to touch on both of those. Like I usually do lots of notes. I wouldn’t look good if I wasn’t writing things down but man you got a lot of lines. I’m just going to read them all off because they were so good. But a big fan of that “I will it’s necessary,” and I think that just resonates with me and startups is that there is no way of telling people that you’ve gotta take out of your mind; that there is no way you can’t do this; I hate the world; I can’t; I hate the way people use that as “I can’t do this” and I’m all over my nieces and nephews, “Stop saying that word because you can you can do anything.”

Colin:
I agree with you fully like my brother-in-law he used to say, “You can’t- can you if there’s a gun to your head?” like you’re not and so like he would say that over and over and over again because well, if you got a gun under here you’d be surprised what you can do and what you’re motivated to do. And yeah yep.

Jeffery:
There’s failures- no, there’s no win in failure. So I know people say that you can learn a lot from failure. I’m tired of those things, so for me it’s, I’m going to do whatever it takes. I got to figure it out and if I can’t then I know I got to fail and move on but I’m going to do whatever it takes to get to that point. And you know what, I guarantee that when I get to that bottom point where I can’t figure it out, it’s gonna be amazing but I’m gonna figure it out.

Colin:
Right and I love that you said that. I- you know a lot of people like to make business plans and like you know things that they get I think that are tools to get them stuck in analysis paralysis but you know, we’re still putting together a purchase for a land and my people say, “What’s your plan?” It’s like, “My plan is to buy it and figure it out,” and that might not sound like a plan but like that’s reality. It’s like you don’t know what you don’t know you think you’re gonna see. You think you can see all the little nooks and crannies like that you can’t but it’s like- what I know is like, anything that comes up, I’m gonna figure it out. I’m gonna go forward. Nothing’s gonna stop and entrepreneurs they get that and that’s why they can detect when other people are hungry or not they’re like well you know, we’ll see. You’re like we’re not going to see we’re going to figure it out, we’re going to tackle, we’re going to. It’s just another robot. There’s robots everywhere and like life is hard. It’s not should be surprising or shocking when things get in your way and when people get in your way and when things go wrong and you got to build and understand that that’s life. And if you don’t get that you’re naive and you’re going to get hurt.

Jeffery:
Yep and I think you used the line earlier, “iterate, iterate, and iterate.”

Colin:
Yeah yeah.

Jeffery:
Told you I’m going to fit these lines in man. This is good, all right. Well again, I thank you very much Colin. You’ve been awesome and the what we like to end our shows off with is, we always like to give you the last word. So anything that you want to share to investors, to startups, the business people. We give you the last word to say. whatever you think fits because it’s all about you and what you’re talking about today. So thank you again for joining us.

Colin:
Yeah, I would say that just remember because it doesn’t matter what everything in life horizon falls on leadership. It is the world belongs to those who can execute. If you can’t execute, get a job or learn to execute but that is- that’s how the world works, that’s how the world’s built ,and that’s who will build the future. So, doesn’t matter if it’s politics, doesn’t matter if it’s business, doesn’t matter if it’s families, if you can’t lead your family, you can’t leave yourself. A lot of people talk about following their heart but it’s like no, you got to lead your heart. Your heart will deceive you, your desires will deceive you, and you’ve got to function inside the constraints of discipline, and this you know, your strengths will take you to the as far as you want to go in life. But your weaknesses will hold you back, so get disciplined.

Jeffery:
I love it man. Execution, discipline, and don’t take “no” for an answer, drive it forward. I like it. All right well, we’ll end it there. Thank you for the last word. You’re a good man, keep up the hustle, and we’re gonna keep chatting because I remember I already seated you with Gary, the name. So we will connect on that name. Once again but thank you very much again, Colin. You’re a rock star and keep up helping everybody. You’re doing a great job.

Colin:
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. This is great!

Jeffery:
Oh, that was fantastic. So I can say that Colin had some fantastic lines. “If you can’t sell, you can’t grow. You need mentorship, ask for help, be available, answer your phone your, damn phone.” Ah! brilliant stuff. You know, if you’re in a company, act like you own the company, build it, grow it, be part of it, put your effort and time in because one day you’re gonna own the company or you’re gonna be part of that bigger entity. I think that that was a brilliant way to look at things. And the other line I really like too is that he said, “You know your job is to make me a believer. So sell, figure out how to sell better so that you can make them a believer.” I really thought that was great. I was a big fan of his favorite movie Interstellar with Matthew McConaughey. I- the ending was fantastic in that movie, super unpredictable, predictable, and it was just good like you had to really think about it. So great narrative. Find the narrative, make it happen, and like you said, you know, we’re buying a ticket to be part of the journey. So make it worthwhile and build that company, and ask for help when you need it. But it was great chatting with them. Colin did a fantastic job. So thanks everybody and have a fantastic week.