Jeffery: Welcome to Impact Investing, brought to you by the Supporters Fund, the home to the first Tim Hortons. Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. I’m your host, Jeffrey JP Potvin. And let’s please welcome from the City of Bridges, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Jesse Wiebe, Start up TNT. Welcome, Jesse. It’s a real pleasure having you join us today.

Jesse: it’s great to be here. Always a pleasure to have a conversation with you.

Jeffery: Well agreed man I’m excited to chat with you, Jesse, because you’ve done some awesome things. You’re, you’re a local boy. If you want to call it that. Because you’ve been in the hood in the Toronto area, for university, but then also been all over the world. So I’m excited to chat with you because we’ve already had many chatting, discussions around travels, but it’s pretty exciting. You’ve you’ve kind of taken up this Canadian homeboy style where you’re you’re kind of moving around all the ecosystems in the startup world, and not too many people have done that. So it’s pretty exciting to be able to dive in and learn more about what you guys are doing at startup TMT. And obviously, explore more of, the great things that, go in this, ecosystem that you’re driving. So but we’re at the start. Our show off is you want to start off with one thing about you that nobody would know, and then let’s go all the way back to university days. And further, if you can share that and just give us an idea of where you’re coming from.

Jesse: Yeah. I always had, like, two ideas, but, you know, people don’t know. But the first, what I think is often, people are a little surprised by is when I was two years old, my parents, decided they wanted to spend some time in Bangladesh, Dhaka, doing some work, with an economic development agency there. And so I spent, you know, like this the, the early part of my life and, and it’s funny you say it, from I was born here in Saskatchewan, but in so many ways, I was born in, in one of them because, you know, you don’t really remember much before you’re two years old. And so when I think back to like, where, you know, I started from in my life, I always, you know, imagined and envisioned, the life that we had there in Dhaka and, that’s, really set me up for a life of, of being more of a, of a global citizen and being someone that likes to travel. And it gave me that wanderlust. Throughout my whole life.

Jeffery: That’s awesome. And I’ll add to that what I. What I love about the fact that, you know, you’ve not only been, you grew up in in Bangladesh, in Dhaka, but also traveled through and and lived in other countries as well, including London. And I love the idea of the whole travel side. And, you know, I was in Bangladesh probably, three I think it was three years ago and Dhaka was awesome. The street food was incredible. I enjoyed this, love exploring, walking around. I know there’s been a lot of things happening there now with government and past, issues. And I’m sure in the time that you were there, there was just as many of those types of things that were, occurring, just based on the way the regimented country works. But it was, I still think that the people there were phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal people. Beautiful, helpful, super nice. And I really enjoyed my time there because I find that when you have, when you’re working in a country that has more struggles because of political and other things, and they mean they work while the rest of the people just follow that suit of being super friendly, nice to visitors and travelers, and they work their ass off to get further ahead. And I just love the the side that there are a growing economy and they’re only going to get better. So, it was great, a great adventure of being able to go and travel through there. So it’s a great story. You grew up there.

Jesse: country. Great great people. And I got to learn so much. And we also got to travel to India, and to Thailand and Nepal. So I’d, I’d seen Mount Everest by the time I was five years old. And, you know, been to Kathmandu and been to all these different places. So, we’ve always jokes I call it a Catman and the do when I was younger, as opposed to, but, yeah. And then and then getting to spend, my sort of 20s in, in London, England and travel around Europe, it’s been a real privilege to be able to, to spend so much time in other places around the world.

Jeffery: I love it. What do you get to learn other cultures? It really changes your perspective on how people are operating, how they’re building businesses, how they interact globally. So it’s pretty cool to be able to to have that experience. And as I mentioned, very few people carry that. So it’s pretty exciting that you have that perspective that you can certainly, offload to, to other founders. And, and a lot of, you know, the programs that Canada set up, they’re bringing entrepreneurs in all over the world. So it allows for you to operate. And I noticed that even when working with founders in, in, Saskatoon and Regina, you’ve got such an eclectic group of people that I think sharing those experiences helps them feel comfortable, but also helps them better understand the landscape when they’re trying to build their companies in, in, foreign countries or their new home, etc.. So pretty exciting. And I guess, to take it on that, maybe, we can go back and you can share a little bit about, yourself and where you’ve come from outside of obviously, your global exposure today, but maybe, a little bit more of your background and even from your, your university days all the way up to today. And what got you involved in the early stage startup space? I. I always like to start the story. With. With my father. Because he was an entrepreneur, we. You know, we did spend that stint from 1981 94. And when the last. But before, prior to that and actually through that time period, he was, building two companies, as a co-founder, they didn’t even use the term co-founder because that sort of Silicon Valley lingo hadn’t hit Saskatchewan yet at that time. But he, worked with, with a group, starting in 1979, to build a company called Sattler Computer Technologies. And then, few years later, started building a company called Cirrus, fertilizer using, uranium mines off stream, to create and, ammonia, sulfate fertilizer. That, was, you know, kind of the, the fourth of the major nutrients that that this needed for the agriculture space. And so he was the CEO of the fertilizer company and built and sold that one, in 2002 and then set their computer technologies. Was developed, developed it and accounting software for farmers. They actually started it on punch cards, back in the day. And would you believe it, it’s still running today because it’s as far as we’ve found, it’s the only company that the federal government in Canada has ever acquired. And, it’s it was acquired by, Farm Credit Canada. And because it was or at the very least, it was the first because the government did not know where the buck stopped on who had to sign the paperwork. So they kept going up and up and up until they hit the governor general’s desk. So we’ve got paperwork with the governor general saying he’s signing off on on purchasing the company. And it’s still operating today. It’s called AG expert. It’s, farm credit, Canada’s, accounting software. So I, I was exposed to, you know, entrepreneurship and being around, you know, my dad in that sort of hustle culture because he was, you know, working long days and long hours. And then on top of that, we have a family farm and it was relatively small at that stage. But after those two exits, he continued to kind of build that up. And I didn’t really appreciate that learning until I got, I think, into my 20s. And then I really when I came home during Covid, as you mentioned, I, I went to school at least I actually went to school at least twice. I went the, the other sort of thing people might not know is I went to the University of Waterloo for a little while, in chemical engineering, straight out of high school. I, was really strong in math and science. In school, I was always a smart kid. I didn’t fit in a lot. In school here in small town Saskatchewan. I grew up in Langham, just outside of Saskatoon. Growing up on the farm, taking the bus to school and all that. But because of my global experience, you know, when I was really young, I didn’t fit in in the same way I. I saw the world very differently. And it was hard for me to make friends. And so I mostly just focused on, academics and, did really well in school. And, yeah, I had had that, affinity for, for math and science. So I said, you know, combine those two things together, you get engineering. Maybe that’s what I want to do. And realized after a few years at Waterloo and doing some co-op, I really, appreciate being able to do a co-op program. And I always recommend to, to young people and parents of young people if you can get your kid into some sort of program, that’s that’s it. Got a co-op component. Absolutely. Do it because it’s it’s such a worthwhile experience. And really realizing after that, I, I went to another one of my, sort of passions, which has been food. So I tried that for a little while, worked in a kitchen in Saskatoon, and I felt that was sort of my, education, on society a little bit more and got to learn sort of the, the street smarts as everybody like to say, you know, I was really book smart, but I didn’t have any street smarts. So I, I learned that through my time at, working at, at an Earl’s here in Saskatoon. And then, you know, through that, I was like, you know what? I want to travel again. And I had I had kind of gotten stuck, you know, spending so much time in Canada. I was like, you know what? I want to get out. And so I got a 2 or 5 working visa and went over to, to London, England, and, spent two years there and traveled around Europe. But in that time and being exposed, to the, the atmosphere in London. Right. It’s one of the, you know, epicenters of the world. And there’s, there’s just so much there. And I realized I wanted to be a part of this game like this, this bigger thing that was happening outside of myself and in order to do that, I needed to to finish my education and get that degree. And I actually, just randomly one day looking in a bookstore because I’d always, you know, read books. You can see kind of the shelves behind me. It’s kind of further down below, but there’s lots of books there. The book Thinking Fast and Slow by, Daniel Kahneman. And I loved that book and really resonated with that way of viewing the world and just got into that behavioral economics side. And so I was like, you know what? I want to go study economics. And I wanted to do it in Toronto, and decided to go to York University. That actually got a really strong economics department there. And I had a lot of friends that I had made in London, that we were all there on visas. And so I got to spend time with all of them, in Toronto. And it would also, you know, connecting back to my father again. That’s the other half of his degree. He he’s got an agricultural economics degree. From the U of S here in Saskatoon. And so we were really able to connect on that side of things and, and learned a lot, through that program. Got, you know, exposed to, really different connections to the Toronto ecosystem. And then eventually, when I was looking to do something after graduation, I heard about an organization called leaders X, which was, a nonprofit, similar in some ways to the to start ups and the group I work with now, and really passionate about solving, problems around the world, but just never really figured it out. But I learned so much through that experience. And, and unfortunately, that that nonprofit eventually, was wasn’t able to make a go of it, so it, it failed and it was dissolved. And not too long after that Covid hit and that really forced me, to move home. So maybe I’ll leave it there because I’ve been talking for a little while. You want to unpack any of that part? But we can get into the next phase here. When I, when I came home, to Saskatchewan.

Jeffery: Well, that’s a great story. And, like you said, there’s lots to unpack there. And, you know, it’s interesting because there’s a few things that you talk about when it comes to university and you’re kind of drive for global exposure and traveling and kind of understanding the rest of the world. But you came to almost fall back on school. And I know this has been a hot topic. Quite often in media where, you know, people are saying, oh, you don’t need degrees anymore. They’re overpriced, they’re overvalued, they don’t do anything. Just go be an entrepreneur or go work for a company and work your way through the ranks. And, you know, it is fascinating because when you look at what universities used to be and they were, a couple of tools that would be enabled for big business. So big business would say, hey, we’re going to be looking for these skills over the next 10 to 15 years. Hey, education, can you guys build them so that our front line people, when we hire them will come directly from you, but they’ll have a couple of years of learning experience through your school. And then when we hire them, they’ll be already trained. The government will pay for it or the people will, and then we can hire them to come work for us. And the education side will be faster to integrate them into our company. And today you’ve got degrees and so many layers, but they’re not really meeting the demand of what business needs because business isn’t dictating it any more. Businesses and say you need to get this degree for X, so you end up having a lot of people going into I want a degree and whatever it might be, but it doesn’t fit in the business space. So the business people are like, well, I don’t even know how to fit you into this because what you’re learning doesn’t solve my entry level role. So it becomes kind of difficult. But to your point, you said I went back to make sure I got the education that I had to finish it. So maybe just talk to that, because I find that kind of relatively important. It doesn’t matter if you’re a startup or you’re big business. What was the driver for you to say? I have to come back and get this degree. Was it, classify it as an ego thing? If I don’t have this, I’m nothing. Or is it, I’m getting this because one, it’s just letters behind my name that show that I have the determination to complete something. Like. What was the reason you went back? Because it’s relatively new. So why did you go back versus just keep working and doing the things you were doing? Because they were generating value and revenue. So why did you go back?

Jesse: It was, you know, the combination of factors for sure that that made me want to go back. Your your point there on, you know, sort of the, the ego side slash, you know, needing to prove, you know, that I could complete something and, you know, have those, those letters behind my name, the, the type of roles that I sort of envisioned at the time when I was there in London, you know, sitting on the banks of the Thames, you know, looking at, you know, all the, the skyline and saying, you know, I want to be able to get up into those offices and operating within those types of spaces. You know, you needed that, degree in order for people to take you seriously. Right. And so I and I knew that, you know, I, I absolutely, you know, to your point on learning through the internet, through books, through everything else, you know, I, I probably could have gotten a lot of the same knowledge and expertise by just doing it on my own. But there is something about still about the signal that is that by having a degree that’s really important. The, the other component, I think going back and, and this is really where I, where I provide when I, when I talk to other, you know, young people coming out of high school or, or the parents of a young people is that, you know, the issue in the system is that there isn’t enough time for for young people to really learn, you know, what it is they want to study because they want to do a particular job. Right. So I came back to university with a very different lens on the world. And, you know, the purpose of education. And it it really allowed me to take better advantage of the overall opportunity. And I noticed it right out of the gate because I still had to take some, you know, I, I technically transferred from the university of Waterloo to York University. So I, I was able to move over some of the credits, from, from my engineering degree, but I still had to take a lot of, like, entry level classes. And so I’m hanging out with, you know, 17, 18, 19 year olds in those classes. And you could just I could just see it right away in terms of, like, the way they saw the world, the way they understood the concepts and economics and how the market works, how industry works. Because I had actually been out in the world in business and, and exposed to act. And so I think one of the issues in our system around education is that we don’t have enough opportunity for young people to essentially flirt with different professions, right? That’s actually a term for one of my favorite books. It’s called range. By by David Epstein. And it’s a, the take on there is that is that if you have an opportunity to go around and like, try out different jobs and because because jobs are so much more than just like To. this knowledge, it’s it’s, it’s a whole life that’s attached to that job. And so I through my 20s, I basically did that right. I flirted with different professions and got them to kind of see, like, is this the life I want to live? At one point when I was in London, I, I worked in one of Gordon Ramsay’s restaurants, and I did that for about a month because I was like, you, you know, I, I liked being a, a cook and a chef in restaurants. But I was like, do I really want to live this life? And if anyone here has watched, the bare, which is a popular television show these days, it’s a highly accurate view of, like, what that life can be like. And, you know, if anybody’s ever considering trying to go down that road, it’s it’s not a great life. Like you’re working from 6 a.m. to, 1 a.m. and you’re only getting a few hours sleep, and you’re on your feet all day long, and you’re getting yelled and screamed at by the sous chef and all of that. So, I think it’s really important to, to get that exposure and to variety different, areas. And then and then once you know, what you actually want to study and why, you know, I was listening to your your key, your podcast, your last episode with Keith, Apple, a great friend over at Sprague. And he talks about the why and that was that was so critical for me going back the second time, because that’s what I didn’t have the first time around, is I very quickly lost the reason why I was studying this. And when I came back in economics, I was like, I want to understand this because I want to understand like how it all works. What how does the world actually operate from an economics perspective, you know, how does capitalism operate and work? And now in my in my role in venture capital, it’s been invaluable. And I often there’s one of my favorite professors, Fred Lazaro at York University. He’s he’s got these quotes that he likes to use from sorry. And I’m blanking on his name. But he does use all these these quotes. Yeah. Yogi Berra, use all these different quotes from from Yogi. That I’ve just still in my head all the time and, and different moments when I’m, when I’m in business. So, it’s been, it’s been a, it was a really great experience and. Yeah. Expose me to a lot of other people and a lot of the connections from there. I’m I’m still running into them, today. So it’s been great.

Jeffery: Well, there’s a couple of things that really stand out about what you just share is. Well, the first thing. And I want to go back to kind of how you dived into this logically. And you mentioned the flirting part. And we’ll get to the the favorite book. And in a further on, but you talked about the flirting part, and I think this is such a huge and very powerful piece that we lack as a society, is that you should be allowed to go in and learn things, try things, and when you’re not good at them, know when to cut them off and walk away. And you know, to your point, on the cooking side, I worked as, as a sous chef, in the kitchen, for whatever it was six months when I was 17, I think. And, yeah, it I started off as a, as a waiter because that was the role they offered. They’re like, you’d be a great waiter. And within a week I was like, I can’t stand this. I have to be super nice all the time. I have to talk to people. Why do I have to talk to people? I just want to give them their food. They’re like, no, you have to talk. I don’t want to talk to people. I’m introverted person. I don’t need to talk to people. They’re like, you have to talk to people. I’m like, can I go somewhere where I don’t do this? They’re like, you’re going to go from being paid $100 an hour to minimum wage. Yes. I don’t want to talk to people. They’re like, okay, you can become a cook. So I shifted it to being a cook and people would think I was crazy. They’re like, why would you give up all of that cash for that? But the learning is, is that you have to figure out where you fit into a space in order to deliver the best value that you can to that role. And, you know, you talked about, being able to flirt with that, but there’s also a big one which you mentioned earlier on in the the US talking is co-op, but it was the best thing that you could possibly do. And I think this carries a lot of weight because this goes for when you’re looking for a job or starting a company, you pivot a lot and you have to be able to learn how to pivot. And pivot comes from the ability to understand what your threshold is for change. And if I can’t figure that out in that short amount of time, I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing and then I’m miserable. But I’ve been doing it for 30 years, and it’s because you haven’t found the thing you like about it so that you’ll continue to keep doing it. So in the case of, of the sous chef, maybe there was something you love, but you couldn’t get that to be the 90% of why you’re doing it. It’s still remained only the 10%. So it wasn’t worth driving that forward. So I think that that co-opting piece, to your point, is so massive. And, you know, there was a and I have to look up the name of the book, but it goes to that, the guy that did six months of saying yes to everything, and he ended up finding his wife and everything through that process, is that that’s what this really is. It’s exploring every opportunity, every every option that’s in front of you and just doing it and taking that learning to decide, is this what I want to be doing? And is this something I can get behind for a long time and give it my best and put out something that brings a lot of value to others and including myself in the future. So I think flirting is huge. The co-op part really supports that, and the end result is that it keeps shifting you and funneling you into a space where you’re finding what you’re optimizing and being the best that.

Jesse: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think this. This is what is missing. You know, when we were thinking about the education pipeline and getting that pipeline for people into business, is is getting the exposure to to what’s actually out there and what type of jobs are even available. Like, when I was growing up, I had no idea this job that I have now was even a job. Like in terms of like what you could do for a career, right? And I had to like go out and kind of find it and discover it. And there are so many roles and jobs out there. That that you. Yeah, you can only really find out about them if you start to get out into the world and get exposed to them. And then to your point about, you know, jumping between the different jobs and some people might push back on that and be like, well, you’re not going to like, learn enough about one particular thing and it’s going to slow down your career trajectory. Yeah, yeah. I would actually push back on that. And there’s a, there’s a great, book called Skip the line, which is also sort of pushing back on this idea of, you know, the 10,000 hours to be an expert. Well, you don’t need 10,000 hours necessarily in that particular field because you can take skills, knowledge and experience from other roles. Right? I take it from from my co-op time and in my experience in chemical engineering at Waterloo, to working as I worked as a waiter and a bartender, as well as working in the kitchen in restaurants. I did that for about ten years. And, and then also, you know, working in a nonprofit doing all kinds of different jobs, trying to start my own businesses before I moved home, during Covid, all of that experience and skill set knowledge, I bring to bear now, on the role that I play and, and so people really need to understand that young people, I think, need to to to know it’s like it’s not walled off, like what you learn. And as a kid and what you learn, you know, in school and in high school and then in university, all of that comes, comes into play, throughout your whole life. And, and if you can find a way to integrate all of those different pieces together, you’re going to feel much more fulfilled overall.

Jeffery: I totally agree with that. And if we, I guess, paraphrase this segment of discussion, it really comes down to one exploring every option you have to. Don’t be afraid to to try it. And failure is really not a failure. If you’re learning something and you’re cutting yourself short because you don’t see extending that. Like I told you, I could share a story. Like I worked in a lumber yard for one day for three hours and you would say, well, why would you only work a job for three hours? Well, because when they hired me, they said, you’re going to stack lumber. And I thought, okay, they’re going to pay ten bucks an hour. That’s great. And you’re going to stack lumber. And if someone comes up to you and asks you for any questions, you say, no, go talk to that person and just stack lumber. And people kept coming up to me and asking me, hey, what can I use for this ability? And stack? And I knew all this information so I would share, oh, you need to do this, or walk them down and give them the right wood, and then the guy comes running out. Stop doing that. That’s not your job. You’re here to stack wood. And I was like, you, dude, you’re losing sales. Like these guys are asking me and I know all this stuff. And I said, you know what? This job isn’t for me. And I walked away, and I quit three hours on the job. That’s it. And they lost someone that had knowledge that I didn’t trust. So. But that experience stuck with me for the rest of my life, because three hours is going a really a long time to be an employee. But it was the fact that it was the job wasn’t made for me because I wanted to stack wood and help people build the best product. So you can’t do that if you’re cutting out the other part of it. So I think in that exploration that we go through with this goes for a startup. And it all, every all this conversation really comes down to when you start to boil it down, is that even when you’re building a company from scratch, you’re going to pivot in the first two weeks. You’ve got to pivot at the first hour. When you start to understand what you’re really trying to sell, you’re going to pivot. When you’re talking with a founder or you’re talking with other founders and and people investing, and they’re going to say, if you’ve ever thought of this, this might be a better angle. And your brain starts to take all these experiences that you’ve gained over time from all of the different countries you’ve been into, the the work effort to the classes you took, to all the professors that you connected with. And that’s kind of the next point I’m going to get to is this connection part. But all of these pieces, they all follow experience, which help you get, you know, if the funnel was this big, you’re funneling is getting shorter and shorter. So you’re actually getting to a focus. And it takes all that exploration in order to get there. Absolutely. It does. Yeah, yeah. And then what’s interesting, too, is. And and hearing these stories coming from you, on your side is, it seems so often that folks that are working in this space and venture capital and impact investing, that we’ve had this kind of a collective career, right? There’s no straight path that brought us all into this profession.

Jeffery: It’s so true. And even the books you mentioned, like I’m a data junkie. I love everything, data. Everything else doesn’t matter in the world. It all works out. Data. Numbers make everything work. And when you’re talking about all the books, kind of into this that I’ve read all of them of, like, that’s pretty much all the podcasts I listen to. Everything to me is about how do you structured data to get to a direction. But there’s a lot of similarities, of course, throughout this. And one of the ones that you mentioned that I think is quite huge, and it actually was one of the questions I wanted to ask because even when I first met you, I found that one of the, real criterias that I found that you had that was really strong is that you have high charisma. Really a people person, very outgoing, like, you’re almost drawn to you because you have these abilities, right? And you started to mention, like, professors names, like, this guy’s a rock star. And I, you know, and throughout that journey, you probably met people that have names of everybody that you can connect with and which I think is phenomenal. And I like from the guy over here watching, I’m just like, oh my God. I mean, oh, how do you do it? Because it’s so amazing. And I guess it’s a, it’s a skill I don’t have, but it’s something that I admire in yourself, but also in people that have that ability to just generally connect with everybody and then remember them and continue to work with them. So in that journey, you’ve mentioned, a lot of this comes down to that networking side. You met this person, they change this. They gave you this book to read. You learned and you learned. And that’s how you kind of keep moving forward. Is there any recommendations you would have to young entrepreneurs or even high school university people that are going out there? What things would you recommend they do in order to kind of get better situated for the next ten years of working life? Is it connect better with people? Is it find specific people to go after? Even if there’s nothing to do with you, just make a connection and see them for coffee every like. What do you recommend helps you kind of move through that channel better?

01:44:05:16 – 01:44:30:02
Jesse
Yeah, that. That’s a great question. It reminds me of, of a variance I had when when I was about 15, we went to, a big North American youth conference down in Charlotte, North Carolina. There was two busses that we took, from Saskatchewan, about 100, 100 youth, you know, 40 hours straight on the bus all the way down to Charlotte.

Jesse: So we spent all this time together with, with everybody there on the bus, and then we get down to Charlotte, and, there were all these meals, and you’re in this huge meal hall, all these different tables, and, you know, you go up to the buffet line, you get grab your food, and then you can choose where to sit. And almost all of the people that were on the bus that came down with me would just sit with the people that they came down on the bus with. And I was like, I can see all of you guys back in Saskatoon. Like, why? Why am I still hanging out with you? I made a point. I kind of made this mental note. And I think there’s this is this is that lesson. Every meal, I’m just going to pick a random table with an empty seat on it and just sit down at the table right. And I did that every single meal. So I’d always just meet people. And so my advice is, you know, just put yourself out there. Right. Like that’s basically what I did, right? Is I put myself in a situations where I would encounter new people and meet new people. And that that started from very, you know, early in my life. And then it just kept happening over and over and over again throughout the rest of my life. And, you know, it’s it’s so many things, in life. It’s about wraps. Right. And if you want to get good at, you know, connecting with people and building a network, you got to get your reps in, right? And you got to get them in early. And you’ll find we’re more often than not. Yeah, there’s some jerks out there and there’s some people who, you know, aren’t the greatest to connect with. But, you know, to your point earlier, but like I say, in Bangladesh, it’s like there’s there’s great people that want to connect with you all over the world. Right? And if you just put yourself out there and take the opportunity to, to try to connect with them and just answer the questions there, more often than not, if you if you sit at a table with a bunch of random people, they’re going to go, okay, who’s this guy? Right. And they’re going to ask you questions and then you do the same. One of my favorite lines, tunes from the show, Ted Lasso, is just be curious, nonjudgmental, right. Go out and try to just learn about people. And and if you don’t know what, you know what to do in a situation, to start asking questions, you know, who is this person? Why are they here? You know what makes them tick? Why? Why are they interested in, what when what they’re doing. And, you know, they’ll tell you and, and that’s how you can build those connections. And so I just I got those reps in and then I got them more and more in as I became a waiter and a bartender, like, I, I basically ran this dive bar on Yung Street in Toronto for a couple of years while I was trying to figure out what I, what I really wanted to do. Between the, the nonprofit and leaders and then Covid and everything like that. So, that I was another opportunity to, to just get lots and lots of reps and on on being in front of people and sort of being on stage because I was like the main guy behind the bar and everybody. And the way the bar was set up, everyone was kind of looking at me, and I take all of that skill set and I apply it to to the role. I feel now.

Jeffery: That’s awesome advice. I love that. And like you said, it’s the reps. It’s it’s repetitive. You got to do it so that it gets ingrained into you and, That’s beautiful.

Jesse: I’ve done it and I’m like, looking back, I’m like, oh my God. Like that was embarrassing. But nice thing is, when you’re meeting like new and random people, it’s like you’re probably never gonna see them again. So like, you know, putting yourself out there going and traveling, you know, like getting that, that tier five working visa, for those, you know, in Canada watching this podcast, like if you’re, if you’re under 30 years old, you can basically move to another country for a year or two and get any job you can get in that country, right? Whether it’s Australia, New Zealand, England, if you can speak French, you can do it in France, or Germany, if you can speak German. And, and all of these, these opportunities just, you know, puts you out there and exposes you to more things and more opportunities and to a better understanding of the way the world works.

Jeffery: I love that, and I. And again, to. To support that. It really makes a big difference getting out there and working abroad. My brother did, one year abroad when we were, young, like, he went to France and Belgium for a year and, you know, changes you. It really does affect the way you see things. You pick up a stronger language. We were French so we could learn the the language better or faster, whatever that might be. And really, I kind of take what you were sharing about the social side, and, a couple of stories popped in my mind, and the one that really kind of stood out was that when I created OPM, and the fun is that it was everything that I didn’t do that I wanted to share back to founders to say, here’s the things that are going to help you move faster. It’s not because this is what we did to find success. It’s the things that we did that were slow and would have been faster if we would have done these things. And the biggest one was really getting out and meeting people. And since it’s not my forte, I have to draw people to me. I figure, how can I do this to help benefit other people? So when teaching it, I was teaching at Seneca York University. I had a 5% bonus for students that would go to, I to do a little project. And the project was that you had to go to a conference that was off campus, had nothing to do with the school. You had to go to this write up, one paragraph on what you learned about the thing. You had to attach your ticket. You had to attach a selfie. So you had to actually do a selfie with you at the event, because I trust nobody would actually go to the event. So you had to to do the selfie and you had to get three business cards and you had to hand that in one pager for for 5%. And the reason was, is that I never did that. And I realized how important forcing yourself to socialize and so and get into a space and meet people. And I would get letters back from the students saying, scariest thing I ever did. Best thing I ever did. I got offered a job or IRA, this happened. And, you know, there was a lot of cool stories that came out of it for just throwing yourself out there. And they were in school just going to an event. Right. And, I think that it’s more people need to push more people to get out of that comfort spot and to use, like you said, I have sat with you on the bus already. Why do I need to sit at dinner? And what do I need to do? These things where I’m going to see you all the time? I don’t need the comfort. What I need is to expand my horizons, expand where I’m going. And it’s so powerful to to hear you say that. And of course, including the reps. I love that. It’s like you go to the gym, you know, you’re not going to get, bigger arms. If you go once every two years. You’re going to get bigger arms if you go every day. So how do you, equate that back to your everyday life and that comes from, you know, if I got to go and shake a hand everyday, make sure you shake one person’s hand new person every day, go shake their hand, set your goal and go after it. And it might have some awkward moments and you might have some weirdness behind it, but you’re probably going to also have some pretty funny stories and some pretty cool interactions that you’re going to gain. But it was well worth the the effort.

Jesse: Absolutely. Absolutely agree. Yeah.

Jeffery: So now you kind of take this summarizing of how you kind of moved your way through all these different ecosystems, the growth of you’ve had the learning, the connections of the communications, like there’s so many skills that you’ve kind of built up over time. And then you decided to jump into startup DNA. And, maybe you can share a bit about how that, you grew up as an entrepreneur. You grew up in an entrepreneur family, so you kind of already have an idea of how the hustle works. So you’ve been doing it already by going into getting this work visa, doing things abroad. So for you, that’s kind of second nature, because you watched your father, your parents go through the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. So maybe the risk isn’t as high for you because you’ve kind of understood it. But what kind of decided that you were like, you know what, maybe I’ll start a company at the same time what you did, and then you’re like, Maybe I’ll invest and I’ll, I’ll drive all this forward. What got you really stuck on it? And now you guys have built this great ecosystem where I’m sure you’re getting more founders coming to you every day that you can keep, keep up with looking for capital because you guys are deploying and you’re tying into really into new art and new investors as well, which is phenomenal. So are there some tips and tricks that you’ve learned from this and what kind of got you started. And.

Jesse: Yeah. The the the really started when when I, came back during Covid time, I, I had the the rule of three hit, right? My lost my job, right. Right at the start of Covid, I, I had been working in hospitality to pay the bills, because I’m still working at some startup ideas and stuff, but none of them had, any cash flow or revenue enough to, to really pay me. And, I don’t know if you know this, but rent in Toronto is expensive. So I, I needed something to pay the bills, and, and then the world shut down and and lost that. And so I was living at home, living off, the dole, the Cerb there. And then my apartment above mine set on fire. And I was in a and then shortly after that, the relationship that I had been in for five years, ended. And so, rule of three, you know, three bad things happened. It’s time to, to maybe, you know, change something up. And so Mom and dad said, come back. Come back to the homestead, come back to the farm. And that was, you know, a tough decision at the time because I felt like I was kind of giving up on myself in some ways. And and in others, it was really the best decision I ever could have made, because it allowed me to heal. Right. And being around, family and being around people, that really understands you and want to see you succeed was was fantastic. And so I, they just I spent about six months out at the farm, you know, still during during and it was fall of 2020 into into the spring of 21 and reading a lot of different books, working on myself. You know, going to the gym, and, and just trying to, to get myself into a better headspace overall and having a lot of conversations with my father. Was a big is a big part of it. And, and, you know, he, he had, you know, obviously has been a successful business person. And we’ve been transitioning out of the family farm over the last, decade or so. He’s got a junior partner that he’s, he’s got a unique joint venture model with to to transition because my, my brother and I were the only two kids, we’re going to take it over. And really, when you think about it, the, the we family and the extended family on on all sides going back all the way to like the 1500s in Germany have been farmers. And so it was thinking about, you know, what is the next family business for, for the weed family. Because, on where are the, where are the only ones continuing the name my, my dad’s only got sisters. So it’s like, okay, what are we what are we going to do next? And, because we were entrepreneurial, in fact, like, I, I had gone kind of in on it, but not in the same way that my father and my mother and even my brother had gone in on it. You’re doing it collaborating as a family. And so I was like, you know what? Like it’s time for me to come back. It’s kind of the prodigal son and and and get out and get my hands dirty and go all in as a family all together. And I wrote down a list of, you know, different things that we wanted to do building our own businesses, you know, maybe buying a business. And then angel investing was actually one of the things on the list. And so I, I, got permission, right? My dad was like, let’s do this, let’s start exploring this. And so we started just like having phone calls with different people, activating all those connections in the network that that I mentioned. And actually can reconnected, with, with some of the folks that I had, done work with through through the Leaders Act that that nonprofit, because those people were really, really, passionate about, you know, solving problems. And I and I liked the, the value system that they had and, and one of those guys, David Jansen, is, is up in Edmonton and he’s good friends with Zach and Tim, the two co-founders of TNT. And I was on a call. We were actually talking about a business idea that I had for a startup. And we were just doing a catch up at the beginning, and he goes, you know, I’m doing the start AT&T thing that like, angel syndication, networking, yada yada. I was like, wait, what? Like, what is that? That sounds super cool, right? And so my other sort of piece of advice for people and for young people is like, if you see an opportunity, if you see a door like, like seize it, like, don’t just because you’re already moving down one other path. But if you if you see a really great opportunity, especially one that you’ve, like, literally written down and said, like, I want to make sure I do this thing, take that opportunity in front of you. And so I did we, we connected with, with the folks in Edmonton there and joined us investors. That was our first, an angel investors rating that five K check, into the winner of the of the Edmonton pool. And I started attending the event. It was all virtual at the time. We were doing the happy hours on on discord. For those that don’t know that the TNT and started TNT actually stands for Thursday Night tradition. So every Thursday night there’s, a happy hour. It now runs in Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Regina and then Winnipeg is combined with, the tech Thursday over there. And the reason why I loved it so much as I, I love the community. I liked the type of people, that I was interacting with. And I very quickly realized, and I’ve heard this from other people that are in the state of Texas. Some of these are my people, right? These are the type of people I want to be spending time with. And so I, I realized though, but because it was all virtual at that time and we were doing our discord every week, it was great. But life was starting to go back a little bit to normal vaccines had started, been rolled out. We knew we knew that things were going to reopen. And so I was like, you know what? I want us to have TNT here in Saskatchewan, you know, and and I had heard there was a pretty, you know, good tech ecosystem. I think I, I didn’t really fully grasp how amazing the tech ecosystem is here in Saskatchewan. But I got an opportunity to, to explore it when I pitched, Zach and Tim on, here’s, here’s how I would do startup TNT in Saskatchewan and they loved it so much, the pitch that, they gave me the job. And so for about six, six, eight months, something like that. I, I just did it entirely volunteer. Thankfully, I had the backing of the family to kind of cover cover my costs and bills, but was able to, start start building it and ran ran our first summit in Saskatchewan in, the fall of 2021. And maybe I’ll just quickly explain, you know, how how our model works. I know you had you had kids from spring that they run a very similar model to us. It was also, you know, we originally kind of borrowed it and stole it like an artist from from the folks in Seattle at the Angel conference there. And actually in the Okanagan, they use it as well. It’s a sort of pre-commitment model where, where each investor puts in $5,000 into the proverbial hat and then over an eight week period, do collaborative due diligence, and, and, enact peer to peer learning in order to filter through those companies and then pick one winner at the end that gets the whole pot. The really cool part. Now, as we’ve expanded the network, it started in Edmonton. First investment was in February of 2020. We’ve now got over 100 companies. And our investors are able to invest across the whole network each time we run it, because we run them all simultaneously. So starting in about, this is we’re filming in August right now, and so we’re going to start our next one in September. We’re going to have B.C., Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatchewan, and then actually Life Sciences and all five of those streams. There’s an opportunity for our investors to cross invest and syndicate deals into any of them. And after that initial five K check, which we we only charge a small fee, and then we don’t charge any fees or additional carry on top of that. And that allows a lot of, smaller checks to be doled out into these different companies because they can put $1,000, tranches into, into the companies they want. So through that and through, you know, our own investments have been able to, invest in over 40 companies now, through AT&T and, and then with the family office, we’ve also got three VC funds, Panache Ventures, Tallgrass Ventures and, TNT capital. So, it’s been it’s been a really exciting journey.

Jeffery: That’s awesome and very exciting on what you guys have accomplished and what you’ve done over the better part of the last three years, three plus years. So congrats on that. I’m a fan. Certainly. Enjoy, the events and participating, in the future of to participate even more. But I guess, that’s all going to be determined on, the due diligence side because, like everything, you’ve got to book it in and make sure you stick to it. Right. And I’m sure that’s the, part that you probably find. That’s the tougher part when you’re bringing in investors is that, who has the time to kind of funnel through that and make sure that they’re part of the system all the way from the beginning on set, all the way to the to the finale. So, either exciting, pretty amazing story too. And and awesome that, the family, has created their own kind of venture to support this and create the family office around this to help, support entrepreneurs in the, in the region and across Canada, which is always exciting. And, you know, hopefully more people will do that. And I think we’re going to have to have a follow up podcast where we dive in more to, how all of these, educational pieces work to support the ecosystem and how you get more investors to come in at that smaller check size so that they can get comfortable investing and really, get them in, because I think that’s super helpful. So I think now what we’re going to do is we’re going to pivot to our, 62nd rant. We had a good, long discussion. We’re going to jump into that, and then we’re going to have to, do some quick, quick things after that. So I know we got a time window here. We got a hit. So why don’t we jump into the rant? I’ll put 60s down on the clock, and then from there, we’ll say go, and then I’ll make that rebuttal. But, you you fire off when you’re ready to start, and we’re good to go.

Jesse: For those that know me. And if I got with me, especially at AT&T happy hour, they’ll know there’s plenty of things I can. I could rant about. And, so it was, it was tough to pick a particular topic, but I felt with the, the, the, the topic of the podcast around investing and what I do with TNT that, that, that I was going to go with this topic. So so here we go. Accreditation, is a big problem, I think in, in venture capital and angel investing, in twofold one, you know, it’s a bit paternalistic, right? There’s there’s nothing stopping me from driving out to the casino, putting everything on black. But as soon as I want to invest in JP’s company, now there’s an issue. Right now I have to have some sort of threshold. So it’s like you can gamble the poorer people or the people that don’t have money. They can gamble all they want, but as soon as they actually want to participate in true capitalism, they can’t do it. Right. So that’s that’s one issue. But really, I think the deeper issue is that nobody really tells you about accreditation, right? Nobody tells you that there’s this mysterious threshold that you can hit, and then all of a sudden you get to basically be a real capitalist, right? Because, yes, you can buy stocks on the public stock market and you can build a portfolio. But as as a lot of people have mentioned lately in different articles like that, the true gains are happening in the private equity space or having it happening in the space where you’re doing those private deals. And I think more especially young people need to know it’s like, oh, like if I can get to $200,000 a year in salary, or if I can find a way to get, you know, a million in net worth, then I can do these transactions. I can invest in a part of the economy. That’s that’s absolutely critical. And the way that the incentives have been structured across the board basically means that most financial advisory organizations don’t tell you. Right? They don’t tell you that this is, you know, available whether you’re, you know, working with sort of the Edward Jones of the world or the big banks. And I’m I’m guessing most of those financial advisors aren’t going to give you, any sort of information about how you’re going to invest in private capital because they they have no incentive to do so. They’re not going to get fees off of that. So if we really want to create, you know, a world where, where there is more equality and more equity, for more people, we’ve got to find a way to, to change up the, the accreditation model and also change up the way that we educate and tell people about that model. I think a great step forward is this new self certified, exemptions that they have in, in various, jurisdictions. We have it here in Saskatchewan, recently announced in Manitoba as well. But you we’ve got so much more work to do, I think in terms of education on this side of things, and getting people, into to the private equity space. So there’s my rant.

Jeffery: I love it. It’s a fantastic rant, and, I will add into it as much as I’m supposed to rebuttal to this. It’s dear to my heart as well. So I’m, certainly, a proponent of it. You know, when I first started investing 15 years ago and working with companies 20 plus years ago and then was had the opportunity to start investing, this always in the back of my mind, I guess you always have imposter syndrome, which is the same problem I had with, you know, when you’re doing venture capital and you’re like, well, do I own the right to be a venture capitalist? So you start to feel like an imposter there, too. So the whole thing just feels like, you’re an imposter and you even know you’re you’re doing the right things. And we’ve used these the papers you talked about where you can set up and write off and say that you’re capable of doing acts, and it’s only if the government decides to dive into you and see if it’s real or if it’s fake or whatever the reasons are. I’ve had investors come to me and say, I really want to invest, but I don’t fit this criteria. What can you do? Well, unfortunately, now I can’t work with that because you’ve now structured it where makes the liability shifts right from you telling me and me accepting so you’re right, there isn’t fees when it comes to, these money managers, how they operate. So how do you look at it as what is the way to make this more functional so that the risk value is mitigated and that people that get into this get a learning experience, and they it almost feels like we’re lining this up for startup cat because you can come in small, learn and go through those learnings to get into this space. So there’s a better value in outcome in the future. If you lose five grand, it’s not that bad. But if you lose 50 grand or 150 grand and that happens to be your threshold, you know, then there’s a problem. And that’s, like you said, gambling you’re going and gambling what you’re comfortable with losing. This is a gamble as well. There’s high value in this gamble that you could lose all of this money that you put in. And it’s one chunk, one shot. That’s it. So how do you educate people, get them the value that they need to protect their net worth, small or large, to get them through this learning chapter so that in the next five years, you’ve got some real impactful investors behind you that are investing in great companies and helping build Canada and the ecosystem that it needs.

Jesse: Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree. And you’re right. It is. It is why I love strategy. And and that’s why I’ve. I’ve chosen to dedicate myself to, to making it go is because I, I see the solution to the problems, that you’ve identified in strategy and and by, by one, removing those barriers on, you know, having to write those bigger checks like that sort of, built in structural. It’s not even like, just like the companies don’t necessarily have to take, you know, only 25 K, 50 K. And, it’s just really annoying, for companies to have to, like, deal with, cap table with, you know, hundreds and, you know, it’s not, you know, a thousand investors because all of all of them are in for like $1,000 each or whatever. Right. And it’s also annoying to have to go out and try to, like, grab all that money from all those different people. So, you know, I don’t blame the, the sort of the venture capital gain for operating the way that it does. But if, if we can have more organizations like start AT&T, like spring, which is another great organization doing doing similar work where you can syndicate those smaller checks, right, and, and get into more deals and get diversified. A great a great example of this. There was a, the angel group in Saskatchewan back in the day called SAS Capital Network, and a good family friend of ours, here, had done two investments for $25,000 each, into two companies in Saskatoon and we were like, okay, you know, I want to get involved. I want to support my local economy. I want to create jobs and and revenue for my community. And both of those ended up going south. And so he was like, he’s, you know, very wealthy, owns a Canadian Tire here in Saskatoon. And, he could very easily afford to do so. But he lost, you know, both of those investments. And he’s like, you know what? I’m not going to bother with this, you know, screw that. I’m not putting any money into it. But when when AT&T came along and he got involved in this, he’s like, oh, like this is different. I can write five K checks and multiple companies build a diversified portfolio very quickly. This this is different. This is exciting. And on top of that, like I’m not just doing it on my own, I can do it collaboratively with other people and I can learn. And I get the the benefit of that wisdom of the crowd. That’s allowed. And and now he’s gotten really active. He’s invested in RVC fund as well. And he’s, he’s super passionate about he got his kids involved as well into it. And so being able to, to have the ability to invest in multiple companies, I think is really critical and important and still but still being able to have quality deal flow. Right? I do I love the folks over at Front Funder. I know those folks. It’s great. But, you know, to me, to be perfectly blunt, I don’t I’m not always certain about the quality of the deal flow that you’d be getting through through something like front funder. Right. Because a lot of the high quality deals are done entirely behind the scenes. They never make it onto a platform like that. And so folks need both that access to the quality flow and the ability to syndicate. And then to your point, they need that education component. And if I was to say, like, how can we fix the overall credit system? I think what the US is doing and what they’ve been, I think I don’t know if it’s fully passed yet, but the SEC has been talking about shifting to a model of, of, like some sort of exam or, or or, you know, simple, checklist or something you have to go through and basically say, yeah, I understand what I’m actually getting into here. And then and then you can invest, right? And into private equity deals and, and doing, you know, more financial literacy around, you know, that, as I keep saying, it’s like the true form of capitalism, right? Like I think that was one of the key things I really came to understand and changed my, my viewpoint on money and, and how we think about building a future for ourselves is you, you, you want to be investing not just in like an RRSP or a TFSA, but you want to be investing and and in things with real equity right down the road that can that can pay off long term. And if we’re going to wall off like basically one of the, the biggest wealth creators in, in the world in the form of being investing and and startups, whether and if you can do it another way to you can get involved as an employee or a founder yourself, but if you’re going to wall that off to like a certain group of people, let’s be honest, people who are already rich, right? Because if you’re making over $200,000 a year, you got a million in net worth. You’re you’re pretty well off already. Then then we’re only asking for that wealth divide to keep getting worse and worse. Right. And so I think, I think changing the way we, we allow people to get into this asset class is going to have probably a longer term and a more sustainable impact on on the wealth gap than anything else.

Jeffery: Yeah, I love that. And I totally support that. And I will add. One other thing is that when you look at the criteria behind it, $200,000 per year, that’s less than 10% of the country. So. And only less than half of a percent of actually invested in any form of early stage mid tier companies. Of that 10%. So there is a bigger gap of opportunity. It’s just lacking the knowledge, education and understanding of the space. But it’s the same in the US, right? So if you’re looking at less than half a percentage of Canada has ever made an investment into an early stage, it’s around 1% in the United States. You’re still the amount of people of 1%. I you see on 400 million versus 40 million is significant, but it’s still really small knit community in Canada that can invest or have been investing. So if you want to open things up, I think 20% of Canada is generates over 100,000. How are they going to be in a position comfortable enough to still invest? Perhaps not at large amounts, but they can do smaller investments which help them for the future as well. So just like you would divert and diversification is huge. To your point, how do you get people that educated look at all asset classes and saying, now that you’re, over Covid, more people have been educated on what asset classes are and how many there are versus before that. So now people are trying to take control of their financial well-being. And some of these do have higher risk, which is what we’re in. But they you can look at them and say, I should have the ability to judge where I put my money and how I want to put it in and what I’m willing to allocate based off of my position. I’m not going to come back and say it’s the government’s fault and I want my money back. It’s I’ve been educated. I signed off on this agreement. I did the questionnaire to your point and allow people to make those choices just like they did walking down the street and gambling away $10,000 in a night at the local gambling hall. So I think there’s lots of avenues that you can educate people on and support them. And I think you have to give people all the all the cards to let them make those choices. So I, I do agree, and as much as I want to fight against your rant, I think there’s a bigger gap on ways that we can help and, startup TNT is certainly doing that. And, kudos to you guys for doing that.

Jesse: just one really last point that came to mind is, as you’re talking there about, you know, where we’re at as a country is if we, you know, we complain all too often in this country that there’s not enough, you know, early stage capital that there it’s so hard to raise that, you know, we we pull up the numbers and you compare them on even on a per capita basis with, with, you know, markets in the US like Texas or, you know, not like Midwest, Midwest, US states and, and we’re, we’re relatively pathetic, you know, in a lot of ways. But then it’s like, hey, yeah, but you’ve also locked most of the capital behind this gate that they can’t even get access. They can’t even get in. So then you’re surprised why there’s not the money flowing into the space. And basically the whole system is set up. So almost all of that money is being invested in in a lot of, a lot of the time, U.S. market equities. Right. Like like a majority of people, in this country that are managing their finances, you know, with a financial advisor. And, you know, not to say that we don’t need those groups, but the way that the incentives are structured currently, that we’re pouring our money into US market equities instead of investing it back into our own country. Right. So for our own good, we really need to figure out a way to change the way the system works so that we can activate more capital and get more folks. And, and and you’re right. Like there’s there so many people that have risk tolerance that have the ability to invest. But like, maybe they’re only making 170 5KA year and like can why is that person not allowed to write a 5 or 10 K check into a company? That’s just ridiculous. Right. And so yeah, I, I, I’m passionate about what we’re doing and certainty and, and even though I, you know I’m pushing on this one I do encourage, you know folks out there, there are other groups that are doing similar work. And we love to see it because we we know at TNT that the, the, the Hill we’re trying to scale here or the mountain we’re trying to climb, is, is massive, right? There’s a huge, huge gap and there’s always more need for more capital. So, you know, if there’s more folks out there, that are listening to this podcast that, you know, want to, do something similar to that, I’m, I’m always, ready and willing, to talk about it and help support them, build their own thing in their community.

Jeffery: I love it well said and well shared. All right. We’re going to move on to the next segment, and, we’re almost there. So, real quick, we have a bunch of, questions. So you choose what best suits you as the investor, and you pick one or the other. So here we go. Would you rather invest in a founder or co-founder?

Jesse: Co-Founder.

Jeffery: A unicorn or a four year, ten exit?

Jesse: Like. Oh, I gotta go. The ten year for that. Yeah, but the. Yeah,

Jeffery: Four year ten. Okay. CPG or tech?

Jesse: Tech.

Jeffery: AI or blockchain?

Jesse: I we don’t do blockchain. We don’t even touch it. Personally anyway too. There’s

Jeffery: All right. There.

Jesse: I don’t, I don’t touch blockchain.

Jeffery: Okay. First money in or series A.

Jesse: First money.

Jeffery: Board. Cedar observer.

Jesse: Observer.

Jeffery: Safe or convertible? Note.

Jesse: Safe.

Jeffery: Leader. Follow.

Jesse: I mean, I do, we do both, but, I, the other rant I could have done is as, more people need to lead. So I’m going to say lead.

Jeffery: I would agree with, we we love to lead. So, what do you, what do you look when you’re making investments? What do you look for in order to make an investment, what do the companies need to have 1 or 2 things.

Jesse: Well, I mean, this is I mean, it’s been said many, many, many times before, right? You’re you’re betting on the team. You’re betting on on the founder. So they’ve they’ve got to have, you know, and ideally, yeah, you need to figure got that co-founder. And so I picked that is I know the journey. You know, from, from inception to exit is incredibly difficult hard. And so if you have, you know, a quality team where everybody’s bought in and they’re there, you know, the mission and you’re not doing it alone. That that’s really critical and important. And then having that, you know, unique technology, that’s like, I like the deep tech plays, right? I like the stuff that could transform the world. And I do have the ability to to have a diversified portfolio, where you can place those bets on, on some of those things that aren’t going to pay off for, you know, 10 to 15 years. And, and at the same time, have, you know, some other bets that might pay off a little bit sooner. So, when I’m, when I’m looking for the things that I’m really passionate about and get really excited about, it’s something that, can be truly transformational.

Jeffery: A favorite part of investing.

Jesse: The people I love being around the people. Right. The, the there is something so and like positively infectious about being around folks that are like trying to change the world. At the same time, you know, everybody around them are saying, oh no, I don’t think you can do it like it’s going to be so hard. And they’re like, screw you. I’m going to do it anyway. And and having those people being hustle that it, it makes you get out of bed in the morning and pumped and excited for work. You know, I get to, to work and solve so many different problems. So like my second favorite thing about investing, especially the way that I invest, is, investing in so many different types of things. And, I don’t think this is a unique thing for me, but I got ADHD and that that a lot of folks, in the venture capital space have that as well. I remember talking to, the folks at Golden Ventures about this, and he’s like, yeah, I love it because I get to, like, talk one day. I’m talking about a company in in the real estate space, in the next, I’m talking to somebody in agriculture, and then the next I’m talking to somebody in clean technology. And then, you know, you’re jumping between all these different things. So I never get bored. You know, there’s always new and exciting problems to solve. And I love that.

Jeffery: A great love it. Number of companies invest it for a year.

Jesse: We, on the family office side, we’re typically doing, you know, we or we have been doing ten, 10 to 15, with TNT, we we do. I want to say, yeah, like upwards of 20 to 25 a year, depending.

Jeffery: Okay. Verticals to focus.

Jesse: No particular verticals that we focus on. It’s very geographic based. With TNT most of the time, we do have three verticals that we focus on or have focused on in sort of clean climate technology, agrifood and life sciences. But, you know, on the family office side, we’re across the board, obviously, as you could probably pick up from from my history and my, my father’s history, we’re very passionate about the agriculture and food space. So, we we definitely have an affinity for that. But we’ve got, investments, across all verticals except for blockchain.

Jeffery: Love it. For. For what? Is a piece of advice you give founders? Nine out of ten times.

Jesse: Oh, there’s so many pieces of advice. The one I was actually having a conversation about this last night. And talking about investment is you need to you need to be raising capital all of the time. Right. And then going back to our conversation about, you know, building connections and building a network. Is it you need to be getting out there and building those relationships? Is it it is a relationship game. And as much as we like to say, you know, the reason we make these decisions is you know, almost entirely objective. You know, where we’re looking at the data, we’re breaking it down on a spreadsheet doing data analysis. There’s a lot of like emotional and subjective, components to get added into the decision making. At the end of the day. You know, so much of it is, is often like a gut read of, you know, is this person, especially at this stage where investing at the early stage. But is this person somebody I want to be, you know, betting on, and in order for, for investors, especially more sophisticated investors, to feel comfortable on that side of things, they have to have a relationship with you. So if you’re a founder out there, you know, get out, build those relationships. And, you know, I’ve I’ve seen it within startup TMT companies will come in and apply and they think they can just get all the way through to the end simply on the back of like, you know, I’ve got a great idea. It’s great company. We’re selling, look at our metrics, yada, yada, yada. But, you know, they’ve never shown up to a happy hour. They don’t show up at events. Nobody’s ever met them in person. No one’s ever really talked to them. And then, you know, they’re shocked when they get eliminated from the process. And they’re like, well, like, everything is great. It’s like, yeah, but like, nobody knows who you are and nobody’s building a connection with you. So, you know, show up to things, meet people, and then then you’ll be more successful.

Jeffery: I love it. Well said. All right, or last question before we jump into the personal questions. Who is your hero mentor and why?

Jesse: Or. I mentioned him earlier. I got so many different people. That could be, And actually, I’d. As I’m thinking, you hear a loud, I almost want to say my father, actually. And that’s actually been, an incredible relationship. And, to be able to to have over the last, few years and, and but it does feel a little cliche. I think a lot of sons like to say that about their dads when, if they have the type of relationship that I do. But the other one I mentioned earlier, on, on the podcast is, Fred Lazard, out of, the, George University and Schulich, learned so much from him. He’s he’s that type of person that just tells you like it is and, doesn’t hold back. And there are a number of, students in the class that, like, you know, like, that guy’s a jerk. I hate him, but I’m having spent some time now out in the world and out of business. I like he he gave me the best advice, I’ve ever learned. And he had so much experience. You know, he worked in government. He’s he’s worked, and worked for Canada for many years, you know, worked with startups in Silicon Valley. And, so I learned so much from him and his experience, and, and I always appreciated him just not holding back and, and just telling it candidly.

Jeffery: Awesome. All right. Personal side. Favorite movie? And what character would you play?

Jesse: For character, what I play, too, one of the ones I’ve always loved, is, V for vendetta. I love that movie.

Jeffery: That great movie.

Jesse: movie. It’s one of those ones that I can I can go back and rewatch. So I don’t know if you’re going to, maybe playing V, you know, would be. It would be the one I’d like to do. But spoiler alert, it doesn’t end so well for him in that movie. But, he does achieve his goals at the end of the day. So, yeah, it’s, Yeah, great movie.

Jeffery: Great. Favorite book.

Jesse: Favorite book? I think I’d have to go with, thinking fast and slow. But, you know, since I mentioned that already on the podcast, I can also mention noise, which was the follow up, to to that book. I’ve been thinking about that one a lot more lately. As, as we’re about, you know, making decisions and, picking companies to, to invest in.

Jeffery: Perfect. I love it. Great book. Favorite sports team?

Jesse: Toronto Raptors. I’m a huge basketball fan, and I, I got to be there in Toronto and work right downtown during the 2019 playoff run. So yeah, the Raptors are now, imprinted on my soul. And, if I ever have the the pleasure of being able to, to have kids and, and, get them exposed, I’m, I’m absolutely going to be taking them to, to some games. So I’m excited for that.

Jeffery: Great team. Brilliant. Cake or fortune cookie?

Jesse: Fortune cookie.

Jeffery: Superman or Batman?

Jesse: Batman. And you can see it right there behind me.

Jeffery: I love it. DC or Marvel?

Jesse: But then on the other side, I’ll take Marvel.

Jeffery: It’s counterintuitive, but that’s okay. They’re both. Both great. Football or football?

Jesse: Having lived in London, I. I like the real football. I got the privilege of going to an Arsenal game once. A friend of mine, Bobby, took as I was. And you really haven’t seen football together. You experienced it in a European stadium because that’s it’s it’s unreal how big they are. And just, the atmosphere of the crowd and, I think, like, I wish, like North American sports fans could take a lesson from European sports fans in terms of like the songs and the the things that they say out loud because like, so I was just like, let’s go Raptors. It’s like, yeah. But then they’re like, there’s they’re all singing these different ballads and things are like how does every how does like 50,000 people in this stadium know the exact words to say? They’re all singing along. It’s it’s pretty cool.

Jeffery: Now that’s amazing. And I’m an Arsenal fan. And. And I’ve been to the match. I’ve been to London, of course, but I’ve been to matches all over the world, and, it’s one thing I do in every country is I go to a football match. And I completely agree with you. Want to understand the heartbeat of a country? Go watch a football match, a live football match, and you’ll find out how passionate people are, how much energy there are. It is incredible. And from Qatar to Kuwait to you name it, Spain. I’ve been everywhere. And I think it is, just you have to watch football. It’s the only way to show and prove that the country is excited. And there’s, they’re backing their team, and you go somewhere where they don’t care about sports. It totally changes. So, last one, Elon Musk or Oprah Winfrey.

Jesse: Yeah. I love Dylan for many years, but I don’t like the way he’s gone. And so I’m gonna have to go with Oprah.

Jeffery: I love it. All right, we’re getting down to the last question. What is your superpower?

Jesse: I’d say that my ability to connect. You know, you mentioned that you. I think you teed it up for me, so easily. You know, I, I because of my experiences, because of being able to travel all over the world, I can very quickly find something that I can, connect with, with folks on, and, and build, not just a, you know, superficial connection, but like, a real, you know, real relationship. And this is my my last one last sort of piece of advice that I like. And this is one I like to give to a lot of young people is networking is not about the network. It’s about the connection. Right. And about building real true connection with people. And if you can do that, then you will have the network, because that’s what the network is. It’s a series of links and connections between people. Right. And so don’t don’t focus on the transaction. Focus on like getting to know them and actually like really knowing them on such a deep level that that they, they feel that you like them. Right. More than anything, there’s a, great another great book called, Pre Suasion that talks a lot about, you know, how, how you can convince somebody to do something. And one of them is if, if they, you know, consider them to be your friend. Right. And so they build and don’t just like superficially create friends like build a real friendship with somebody. Right. And it’ll pay dividends for years to come.

Jeffery: I love it. Well said. You’re, 100%. You’re a fantastic people person, and it’s been great getting to know you, myself. So, I’m a big fan, so I guess to end our show, I want to say thank you very much for sharing everything. Jesse. It’s been a great conversation. Lots of notes. And, you know, the way we like to end our show is we like to give you the last word. So please share how people can get in touch with you. And then any last words you want to share to the startup community or investors. I turn it over to you, but thanks again for all your time today.

Jesse: Yeah. Thank you, JP, and thank you. From from the community for for doing, this podcast and for giving a platform for folks like myself and, and for many others, in, in the investing space to to tell our stories. That’s, it’s, critical, and important, role to play in the ecosystem. And, really, been a pleasure to, to spend my morning here with you and, have this conversation. Yeah. So get in touch with me. My emails is Jesse. Jesse, started to intercom. So for you to, to reach out, all of the information about our programs are up on the website. If you are, an accredited investor, or, like myself, you have family members that are accredited, like, when I started, like I did take advantage of, of, my, my father, and his ability to be able to, to do this and, and then, you know, arranged a relationship with him. There’s a lot of folks actually in the TNT ecosystem. That’s something I noticed right away. There were a lot of, sort of, parent child pairs within, within the TNT, community. And so, you know, if you are the, you know, the son or daughter of, of a baby boomer and, they’re like, hey, and want to do some generational wealth transfer. TNT is a great way to do it. And if you’re a founder, looking to, raise capital, and you’re in Western Canada, you need to be in the geographic regions where we operate. You can apply, summit ten kicks off on September 25th. And then there will be another one again in the spring. So keep your eyes out, for those applications. And then one final group I mentioned, if you’re if you’re out east in eastern Canada and you’re, you’re watching this and going, hey, I really wish started it was here. I would love to talk to you about, you know, how you can make it happen, and build it in your community because, we we are always looking to, to grow and expand. We’ve got a bit of a playbook to help you get there. And if you build it, you’re going to you’re going to play a really key role in the ecosystem, and you’re going to you’re going to reap a lot of benefits from it. So, encourage those that are interested in helping us, grow and expand. We want to be in 100 cities in ten years. That’s that’s the goal. So, we got we got a ways to go yet, and, we’re going to need more people on the team to get there.

Jeffery: I love it really well shared. Thank you very much again, Jesse, for all your time and sharing. It’s been awesome. Thank you. All right. That was a great conversation with Jesse. So much great learnings there. And I love where he’s come from. And, you know, a couple of key points I’ll point out from that is, you know, the whole idea of early stage flirting, which was the learning from other people, learning different jobs, jumping into things, even if it’s a short term take the learnings, go on to the next, know when to change, when to move out. You know, doing that co-op thing for school, for work. It’s a great way to meet people, puts you into the environment, gets you learning, decide if it’s something you can do for the rest of your life. You know, to his point, it was, doing reps. Put yourself out there, challenge yourself every day if it’s to shake one hand every day or if it’s to, you know, there was a great book on a guy that was just hugging people every day. And, his goal was to hug ten people a day or something. So I guess, in a way, just put yourself out there, put in the reps. That’s what’s going to help you change and become that more dynamic. Be curious. Ask questions. You know, I think this is going to help you, really diversify yourself. And then, you know, when it comes to investing, educate yourself, learn, go through the ropes, work with companies like Startup TNT, where you can make investments into early stage companies and really gain a lot of value from that by going in small and learning your way through it all. So fantastic. Discussion. So outside of that, I want to say thank you, everybody for joining us today. If you enjoyed the conversation, please feel free to share with your friends, subscribe to our YouTube channel, or please follow us on Spotify, Amazon or Apple. You can find us on all social platforms, including LinkedIn at supporters. Fun. Your support and comments are truly appreciated. Please visit us at Supporters fund.com or startup events at Open People network.com. Thank you and have a fantastic day.